MAKERS@Home with Tanzina Vega

“We have assets that allow us to identify stories, that allow us to communicate with different communities, that the rest of the people in our newsroom may not be able to do.” - Tanzina Vega, journalist and host of @TheTakeaway, talks with Emmy award-winning host Lilliana Vazquez about seeing her role as the only Latinx person in the room as an asset, about growing up boricua in New York, and about how her experience as a mother has been different from her mother and grandmother’s experiences. Lilliana will be hosting more conversations with badass Latinas to celebrate #latinxheritagemonth so stay tuned! #MAKERSatHome

Video Transcript

LILLIANA VAZQUEZ: Hey, everybody. I am Lilliana Vazquez, this afternoon filling in for Dyllan McGee on "MAKERSatHome." Now I have very big shoes to fill. I don't think I will fill them. But I am incredibly grateful for the opportunity to be your guest host for "MAKERSatHome" for Hispanic Heritage Month.

It started September 15. It goes through October 15. And all month long, we are going to be chatting with different voices in the Latinx community that will help empower and educate us on their respective fields and also on the Latinx community at large here in the United States.

We have an incredible interview coming up with Tanzina Vega. Some of you might recognize that name. She is, of course, the host of "The Takeaway." It's a public radio show broadcast on hundreds of stations throughout the country.

And she speaks the truth. She speaks about the, I want to say-- how do I call this-- the truth gap that exists in media. She speaks about the wealth gap and of course the empathy gap that we see in mainstream media and reporting.

And so I'm excited to bring her into this conversation. I'm waiting for her to join us. Hello, gorgeous!

TANZINA VEGA: Hi! I made it.

LILLIANA VAZQUEZ: How are you?

TANZINA VEGA: Can you hear me? Great.

LILLIANA VAZQUEZ: Yeah, I can hear you perfectly.

TANZINA VEGA: Thank you. Thank you. I'm going to take off my glasses for a second so that-- but if I need to read things, I'll have to put them back on.

LILLIANA VAZQUEZ: No worries. Those are very cool, by the way. I love those frames.

TANZINA VEGA: Thank you.

LILLIANA VAZQUEZ: They look great on you.

TANZINA VEGA: Thank you.

LILLIANA VAZQUEZ: Tanzina, thank you for being here with us to celebrate Latinx Heritage Month with MAKERS Women. We are so excited to hear your story and to hear how you find passion and purpose in everything that you do, and how that is also enhanced by your experience as a member of the Latinx community.

So tell us a little bit about your upbringing, because, you know, you're a New Yorker, a native New Yorker.

TANZINA VEGA: Born and raised native New Yorker--

LILLIANA VAZQUEZ: A real--

TANZINA VEGA: --for better or worse.

LILLIANA VAZQUEZ: A real New Yorker. You're also boricua, como yo. And I want to know--

TANZINA VEGA: Guapa.

LILLIANA VAZQUEZ: --what it was like growing up in New York City when you did on the Lower East Side-- correct me if I'm wrong-- as a boricua in a city that is rich in diversity but also rich in Puerto Ricans.

TANZINA VEGA: Very much so. I mean, I grew up in the Lower East Side, as you said. I grew up in public housing. I spent the first 20 years of my life in public housing in downtown.

And you know, there's an interesting vantage point, literally, that I had of the rest of the city, right. I could see the-- what used to be the Twin Towers. I could see really the center of power, you know, right outside my window in a lot of ways, at least economic power. And yet, you know, I was raised in a low income community, a working class community. And that I think really paints your perspective, you know, on life, when you really have proximity to power and yet-- and I know we're probably going to talk about stepping into your power at some point.

You have proximity to power, proximity to wealth. And in what-- in some ways, what that did was that made me, you know, have access to these things, right. I could go to the High School of Performing Arts. I could get on the subway and be in different parts of the city right away. But you're also very aware of what you don't have in communities like that.

And so I think there was an interesting-- particularly in Manhattan, there's a really interesting, you know, juxtaposition of very wealthy and not so wealthy. And that really colored a lot of ultimately what I ended up focusing on in my journalism, which is inequality. You know, a lot of that is just at the core of what I do, you know, and what I have done for years.

But-- but I loved growing up in that community. I never really saw it as-- as something that I was lacking. I think as I got older, I started to realize, OK. There really were differences.

I mentioned, you know, going to High School for the Performing Arts. And you know, I-- I was able to get into that school because I had very dedicated teachers in elementary school and junior high school who took the time out to give me, you know, music lessons. But I never owned my own instrument, right, until I got to high school.

And so I went to a school where there were lots of kids who had gotten lessons from the time they were toddlers, right. And so that's where you really start to see wow, you know. We're both-- we're all in the same place, but there were real differences in how we got here

LILLIANA VAZQUEZ: I think that's so interesting that you bring that up, because so similar to you-- So I grew up in a very Mexican community in Fort Worth, Texas. That's where my parents met. My dad's Puerto Rican. My mom is Mexican. And I grew up on the north side of town.

And again, low income. You know, rich-- rich in culture, rich in love, but not rich in resources is what I always say. And what my mom did was make the choice to send me to a private school on financial aid.

And in the same way that you did, New York gives you access because you can actually see it when you walk out of your door. You walk three blocks and you're in a very different neighborhood. For me, it was stepping through the gates of my private school that made me realize OK. We're not all the same.

TANZINA VEGA: No.

LILLIANA VAZQUEZ: How does that inform your approach to storytelling? Because I think for a long time I didn't realize it. That shapes everything that I do and everything that I am as a person, because I lived in one world. That was my reality when I went to bed at night, when I woke up in the morning. And then I stepped into this whole new world that, while it felt intimidating, it opened my eyes and it drove me to work harder and more than everyone around me because I saw that I wanted to bring that back to my community and I wanted it for myself.

So how does that inform your storytelling, and how did that inform your decision to become a journalist?

TANZINA VEGA: I became a journalist partly by-- you know, because it was sort of the perfect combination of things that I really like to do. I'm naturally inquisitive. I can deal well with deadlines. Like, there are certain things that I'm more drawn to, and communicating is a big part of that. And making things understandable for people, right, taking things that are really complicated and trying to uncomplicate them, if you will, and make them accessible, right, to people.

LILLIANA VAZQUEZ: Yeah.

TANZINA VEGA: I actually started in a very wonky part of journalism, which are technology magazines and trade magazines, where there aren't-- forget about diversity. These aren't-- You know, these are business-to-business publications that aren't even on the newsstand.

LILLIANA VAZQUEZ: Right.

TANZINA VEGA: So my-- my entre into the world was a very sort of wonky part of the industry. But it also allowed me to wear multiple hats. I was doing a podcast, for example, in 2004, you know, that was all about what they call enterprise technology research, right.

Not the sexiest thing in the world. Not something that you're probably, you know, even interested in. But what it did was it afforded me the opportunity to really get my-- you know, see that oh, I have a-- I have a natural ability at this. You know, I have a natural ability to, you know, get on the mic or-- Who knew it was going to translate to radio? I had no idea.

And that's something that some of your younger listeners may want to, or viewers here, may want to remember, is that you have no idea where your career is going to end up, the twists and turns that it's going to take, the opportunities that are going to present themselves. And at the same time, the things that you're not going to get, right? They're gonna be many things that don't happen for you.

And-- and I would caution you to not worry as much if you don't get that one thing. I mean, I was working in an obscure office on Long Island, you know, working for this obscure magazine that doesn't even exist anymore. Who would have thought that ultimately I'd end up at CNN, at "The New York Times," and now hosting my own radio show on New York Public Radio.

So I think, you know, those-- but that little glimmer that I got in the early 2000s-- or the early aughts, I guess people would say-- you know, really said, OK I'm good at this. Now what do I do with it? Not so sure, but I'm good at this.

And so I decided to pursue a master's degree in journalism, in digital journalism in particular, at the City University of New York, at the time their inaugural School of Journalism, and really focus on digital media in particular. And again, that took me through-- All of the jobs that I mentioned, all the places I've worked for, the connecting thread has all been digital media, right.

So again, I always caution people to say, you know, you can set a goal and say I'm going to be a reporter at "The New York Times," for example. Great. If that's your goal, I wish you the best. I never set a goal like that.

LILLIANA VAZQUEZ: Yeah.

TANZINA VEGA: I was always open to where my skills would fit and sort of how that would connect with what I was interested in. And also there's this other part. You gotta work, right? You need to have a job in order to pay the bills.

So a lot-- you know, there's sort of a very realistic part of that conversation that I think people may not want to think about. They may not want to, you know. But at least for me, it was important to make sure that whatever I doing was financially solvent so that I could pay my bills and could pay my rent and also was one step closer to ultimately what I thought was going to be a long career in journalism. And so far, that's how it's panned out.

LILLIANA VAZQUEZ: But I love that you have that open mindedness approach. And you know, sometimes you do these jobs. I can think of so many random jobs that I've taken over the course of my lifetime. And you know, I wouldn't be where I am without the lessons and experiences.

Now, were they glamorous? No.

TANZINA VEGA: No.

LILLIANA VAZQUEZ: Were they, like totally-- Did they feel like a sharp left or sharp right from what I thought I wanted? Yes. But I think what age does and what I think confidence does is it allows you to reflect on those opportunities with a different set of eyes.

And I think you're so smart to say that, because I see so many young people, and I mentor so many young women, and they do have those very clear, defined, precise goals. Like, I'm going to be the youngest Latina editor-in-chief at "Vanity Fair."

TANZINA VEGA: Right.

LILLIANA VAZQUEZ: Oh yes.

TANZINA VEGA: Yes, that's great. But if--

LILLIANA VAZQUEZ: I am here for you.

TANZINA VEGA: --that doesn't happen, there's so many more ways to approach the career, I think.

LILLIANA VAZQUEZ: Yes.

TANZINA VEGA: And there's so many ways to-- Who would have thought? I mean, I remember, believe it or not, when podcasts-- "The New York Times" got rid of its podcast. They said we don't even want to do this anymore. We're not interested, right? And now they have "The Daily."

So remember that what's happening in the moment-- Same time I had all this podcasting experience from way before people were even thinking about podcasts, right-- before people even had iPads, really. And so you know, these things come back. Are you building your skill set? Are you building your character? Are you building--

You know, my first job even at "The New York Times" was that-- I didn't walk in and say I'm a reporter at "The New York Times." I walked in and had a weekend job as a-- as a news clerk, right? And I had been an editor prior to that, and that was partly because I wanted to go to journalism school full time.

And so you know, we take calculated risks, and I think risks are important to take. But I think we also have to know that there is a long game, and that long game may take you to places that you never imagined. And that's for better or worse. I mean, there may be something even more exciting on the other side of that, you know, next job that you can't see yet. But you kind of have to have a little bit of faith that it's moving you somewhat closer to something, right?

LILLIANA VAZQUEZ: Absolutely. No question about that. And let's fast forward to where you are now. You host "The Takeaway." I love that you guys tackle the wealth gap, the truth gap, and the empathy gap. I can't think of a better place to center your storytelling than from those three.

Was that always clear to you as a mission for "The Takeaway" right from the beginning? And how did you--

TANZINA VEGA: That was--

LILLIANA VAZQUEZ: --find that mission?

TANZINA VEGA: Sure. No, sorry about that. That was actually my-- When I sat at the helm of the show, it was, right, 2017. And I remember I had just come off of working at CNN, where a big sort of the focus of my work continued to be race and inequality. But we had just come out of the 2016 election. And one of the narratives that came out of that election to me at least was a lack of empathy, right? And I remember distinctly hearing a lot about the white working class, for example, the-- and how they voted to mobilize to vote for President Trump because of economic anxiety, right?

Now let's be clear. That is true. White Americans particularly in the middle of the country did experience job loss. And they have experienced other in terms of drug addiction. We know the opioid crisis hit certain communities really hard. So this is a population that was slighted.

What was missing from that conversation about the working class was that it isn't exclusively white. And there was a gap in my opinion in terms of how we were focusing on one group of folks who-- who needed and deserved empathy and not another. And those other folks were communities of color, were Black and Latino and Asian populations who also are working class Americans, also suffered from economic anxiety.

And if you look at the wealth gap, you see that those numbers, particularly between Black and Latino and white Americans, are exacerbated. The economic anxiety that-- that we as a community feel often at least at the average is that we-- we generally don't have wealth. It's one thing to have a nice income.

It's one thing to say, OK, I'm making six figures a year. That's your income. That's not your wealth. That doesn't reflect your assets. Do you own a home? If everything went to hell, do you have anything in the bank? Can you borrow money from your parents? Can your grandparents throw you a loan, right? All of these things are wealth. And we as people of color don't have that. And so that is exacerbated as well.

LILLIANA VAZQUEZ: Because-- and we're also not taught how to build it.

TANZINA VEGA: That's right.

LILLIANA VAZQUEZ: The education for our communities is-- that's just not some-- my parents were dealing with, like, how am I putting dinner on the table? And how am I paying tuition for my daughter to go to private school? Anything beyond that, I remember when I wanted-- told them I wanted to go to college. And they're like, we would support you. But we don't-- I don't know how I'm going to pay-- how are we going to pay for that? You know and--

TANZINA VEGA: Same conversation I had with my-- my parents.

LILLIANA VAZQUEZ: You know? And I think-- and I think that is starting to change. And I think it's starting to change because we have leaders like you creating the space for these stories and building education so that we understand those systems and how those systems are built to keep us without wealth generation to generation.

And so I want to talk a little bit about being one of the only. Because I imagine when you walk into your newsrooms especially in the beginning earlier in your career, you were often the only, maybe the only woman, maybe the only Latina. So what responsibility and what do you think needs to be done in the news industry in mainstream media to make sure that we represent Latina and female and Latin storytellers in these spaces?

TANZINA VEGA: Stop saying you can't find them, first of all. I think there are-- just to go back to being the only, I think that there are benefits. And there are positives and negatives to being the only. The positive is often part of my success at the times was also because I was seeing stories that other people weren't seeing.

I'm bilingual. So I was able to work, for example, with the sports section that needed to talk to Cuban soccer players or Spanish cyclists or Dominican baseball players. And I became a regular part of those conversations because I could communicate, you know, in-- in Spanish with--

LILLIANA VAZQUEZ: In Spanish.

TANZINA VEGA: --fellow Latinos, you know. So those are assets. And I think we want-- we want to remember that we have assets that allow us to identify stories, that allow us to communicate with different communities that the rest of the people in our newsroom may not be able to do. So we should be proud of that.

The negative here is that that can also be used as a very-- it's a-- can be a very isolating experience. It can be an experience where you really feel like, you know, you could be the first hired, first fired, you know. You feel like you may be in a precarious situation because culturally you're not as connected to people, let's say, who went to these same schools or who all gather for golf on the weekends or what have you.

So-- so I don't-- I don't want to dissuade anyone. If you have an opportunity to go into a newsroom, and it turns out you will be the only, don't not take that opportunity. Remember that it has positives and negatives. And you need to create a community that will help you to get through that, right? You need your community of journalists, of women, of women of color journalists, who or what have you that you can reach out to.

Now, how do we change that? I've been talking about this for years, literally. I wrote a piece for Nieman about two years ago where I said just pass the mic. I mean, it really a lot of it is just giving people the opportunity to do it. Now, obviously, people that have the talent, the skills, the experience, you want to give that. But to say that we don't-- that they don't exist or we can't find them I think is-- is just an excuse.

LILLIANA VAZQUEZ: I do agree with you there. And do you see or do you feel a responsibility to-- how do I put this? Because I feel like in my career, there's been opportunities where somebody that's in a position of power, another woman, a woman of color is in a position of power and has the opportunity to not just open a door but extend her hand and say, hey, let-- let me put you up for this. It's not-- it was given to me, or it was brought to my attention. But I actually think you could tell this story in a more powerful way.

How do we stop coming from scarcity and come from abundance so that all of these opportunities aren't being hoarded or kept behind lock and key or under lock and key by select people? Like I think that's one of the things that always made me feel so alone and isolated is that I know that you recognize my struggle. I know that you see me work. And you see me work harder. And you see that I've earned this. Why do we not share more? Is it--

TANZINA VEGA: With each other.

LILLIANA VAZQUEZ: Yeah.

TANZINA VEGA: I think partly, like you said, there is a scarcity mentality. There's only-- and that's been beaten into us I think inadvertently maybe by the newsrooms that we've worked for. Well, I don't need, you know, another diverse candidate because I have this diverse candidate, right? We need to start looking at people as humans.

We need to start understanding that we can have-- you know, when your newsroom reflects the rest of the country, you are going to have multiple Black faces, multiple white faces, multiple Latino faces. And all of them have a different perspective, a different way of thinking about the world, right? That's the first hurdle I think we need to get over broadly.

The second hurdle is as you said, this fear that we're not going to have it. If I give it to you, it's not going to be-- I'm not going to have it for me. And I think we need to understand that that's not how power works necessarily, right? I'm not suggesting you give everything to anyone. We have to be strategic. I mean, there is a part of this that you have to be strategic about. People are not always going to come to you with opportunities.

But there are opportunities that I've had. And there are times that I've said, hey. I've reached out to specific people, women in particular, women of color in particular, who I say, hey, there's this great fellowship. I think you should apply for it. I'll back you on this, you know. There's this great job opportunity. I have nothing to do with it, you know. I want to connect you with so-and-so. And I've had women do that for me, right?

And I think it's too-- there's too little of that going on. We don't understand that that is how the game is played. The game is played by people opening up doors to select people. And I think we need to do that. We need to have a certain amount of integrity in the game as well. This isn't about, you know, hurting other people or doing everything with this sort of strategic mindset. And you have to be strategic.

Media is one of the most competitive industries out there. So I get it. People are getting laid off. It's not an easy industry to be in. But if you can be strategic with how you-- you open up those doors and say, hey, there was one-- I had done something that was I thought was a wonderful experience.

And I wanted to bring somebody else who I trusted, who I said this woman has the chops to do it. She has the experience. And I've already done it. So why am I hoarding that knowledge, right? Why not open that up to somebody? Now, I'm not putting it on my Facebook page, right? Because, again, it's about being strategic. And you hope in some way that that comes back to you.

Now, here's the trick. It may not come back from the same person, right? That person might take that opportunity and move on and-- but it may come back through somebody else. Somebody else may have an opportunity. You may get that email that says, hey, would you be interested in working at The Takeaway that popped into my email one day. And I thought, am I-- are you serious? And that came through somebody else who said this is somebody to keep an eye on.

LILLIANA VAZQUEZ: I love that. I love the spirit of that. And I do think, you know, when we have so few seats, we have to share them. We have to be unafraid to share them with people that deserve it people that have earned it. And like you said, it's not every opportunity. It's just the ones that you know aren't a fit for you, right?

TANZINA VEGA: Right.

LILLIANA VAZQUEZ: And I think I see that all the time when I get asked to speak on panels. I'm like how did you find my-- how did you find me? And you know, most of the time, it's another female. It's usually another Latinx female that has done that for me. And I thought, Jesus. Like, we need to be doing way, way more of that.

TANZINA VEGA: And we also need to do it across race and ethnicity as well, right? Like there are real amazing friendships and partnerships with-- with other women journalists who are Asian, who are Black, who are Caribbean, who are Latino, like, who are Latina. And those are the-- and even white journalists can be allies in certain areas.

So we have to make sure that we're also broadening our own lens to say who is in line-- who is aligned with me, you know, in my-- in my temperament and where I see things going, in my view, in my world view about how I want to support women and make sure we're supporting each other.

That doesn't mean I'm not going to be as competitive if I'm at the "Post," and you're at the "Journal," I'm still going to want to beat you, right? That's the nature of journalism. But behind the scenes and off stage, we can be more strategic. And we can, I hope, start to cross-- build these cross-cultural partnerships that we so need in order to move ahead.

LILLIANA VAZQUEZ: Absolutely. No question about that. Now, as we're building our networks and our communities-- and that's something that I believe so strongly in-- you cannot do this alone. You can try. But I found that you will get somewhere much faster with the help and generosity and empathy and kindness of others. So who are-- who have been your role models as you've come up through your career?

TANZINA VEGA: There have been a lot of people that I emulate. But really, I think, you know, when you turn on the TV, and you look at journalists on television, that's probably the easiest thing to say. I want to do that. I want to be that, right? But I think really what I've emulated or what's inspired me is work ethic.

And I think growing up where I grew up in public housing, there are lots of assumptions about who lives there and what we do. And my parents, for example, both have master's degrees, right? And we all spent for-- the 20-some odd years in public housing.

And to me, looking at that and saying we worked really, really hard to make this work and the sacrifices that we made, that's something that was embedded in me from the very beginning. And to me, that was really what got me through. I mean, I can say I want to be the next Oprah Winfrey, which if, Oprah, if you're watching, you know, and you need-- you know--

LILLIANA VAZQUEZ: Hey.

TANZINA VEGA: I'm a huge fan. Grew up with you. Watched you my whole life. I mean, and to be honest, I mean, Oprah was a big part of my generation's, you know, understanding of what media looked like in a new-- her show was earth-shattering. It was groundbreaking. I mean, people were running home to watch her at 4:00 PM live on television, right? It was a thing. But what she did was so amazing to watch, you know.

And then you look at Jennifer Lopez, right, who Jenny from the block. But before she was Jenny from the block, she was a backup dancer on the show "In Living Color," right? And so these are women who-- I'm thinking about Spike Lee. Oh, my God. Ah!

LILLIANA VAZQUEZ: Rosie Perez.

TANZINA VEGA: Rosie Perez, right? Rosie-- all of these women who not just-- who sounded like us, right, who sounded like us, who felt authentic in a way that-- you know, I grew up in the '80s. That was so-- media was-- you think Oscars so white now. Try growing up in the '80s in this country.

Everything was extraordinarily whitewashed and really focused on a certain demographic and a certain look, you know, that my nose, my lips, none of that would have been attractive in that era. So these women really to me broke the mold. And there are many, many, many, many other women. But in just in terms of what you saw on the screen growing up back then, that and paired with what my family, you know, did to make it is really, I think the grounding of my inspiration.

LILLIANA VAZQUEZ: For sure. And I was watching a video of you. And you just gave people advice. And your advice was just follow women. Just follow women.

TANZINA VEGA: Follow them. Yeah, I mean, it's a whole question of I don't want us to all be the same sort of person, right? We all have different perspectives. We have-- you know, there was this big narrative at the 2016 election about how 53% of white women voted for President Trump. And if you are surprised by that, you're not paying attention to the issues that are affecting women of different races of different backgrounds.

And so we need to make sure that we're keeping, again, broadening our lens to talk about-- to connect with other people. Follow different women. Follow and understand that we are as diverse in our, you know, opinions as we are in the types of jobs that we have and the things that we think about.

LILLIANA VAZQUEZ: Absolutely. And because we're in the middle of Latinx Heritage Month, is there a Latinx voice or a Latinx resource that you would like to shine a light on so people can follow and learn more?

TANZINA VEGA: I think a lot of what I've been watching-- there's a bunch of them. I'm thinking "Latino Rebels" is-- Julio Varela and company have been doing a great job since the very beginning, since I was at "The New York Times." You know, we're seeing a lot of emerging media, particularly here on Instagram. There are a lot of sites like one is Latinx Parenting, I think, that's really interesting.

There's-- as a new mom myself trying to think about how we change the-- the sort of culture. Like what can we keep with us? What do we embrace? What do we let go of in terms of how we were raised and rewriting cultural scripts? Like I'm really interested in that. There's a lot of conversation about Latinx mental health, right? And I think that's something that I didn't get. When I was younger, we didn't get a chance to talk about.

So a lot of the resources that are emerging right now that are really sort of challenging ideas-- and I want to be clear. I don't agree with everything. And I think we need to make room for that, too. We need to be able to interrogate some of these ideas and interrogate and say, well, I don't know. I might take a little bit of that. And I think I'm going to leave the rest of that, you know, aside because I don't-- that doesn't align with me.

That to me is the most useful type of media that's out there. What can you take that doesn't feel dogmatic, that doesn't feel like it's forcing you to think a certain way, but that's providing a different viewpoint?

And like I said, these-- the mental health sites, the-- you know, a lot of the Instagram accounts that talk about parenting and decolonizing that and what that feels like, there's just so much richness in those conversations. And I feel often like they're talking to me. And I think I'd like to see more of that. And I'd like to see more diversity even within our own conversations. So I welcome people to do that more.

LILLIANA VAZQUEZ: And I could not agree more. I think especially in the Latinx community, there's so many issues that for so many years we always-- I filed it under, oh, she's old school. Right?

TANZINA VEGA: Right

LILLIANA VAZQUEZ: Oh, that's just-- that's-- that's the way it was in La Isla. Like that's just how we spoke to each other. Those are the kind of comments that we made to each other. And this summer, I had to do a lot of reckoning with that personally, but also with my family. And that led to a lot of rocky and really emotional conversations.

And I-- you know, my grandmother has passed. But I distinctly remember very racist sentiments that were expressed to me that I did not question. And I knew better then, but I didn't question it. And I think you're right. I think as Latinos, we have to realize that the stuff that we've been taught and the stuff that we just say, oh, it's old school, she's old school, it's not. There's--

TANZINA VEGA: No. And I think we also have to understand a lot more about our own histories. I think one of the things that-- that is being interrogated right now is-- are the racial lines that everyone is sort of drawing around themselves and around different groups of people. And I think people need to be able to say as Latinos, we have such a complicated, diverse, and unique history.

Each one of us has this are we-- did we come from an immigrant family? Did we come from a family that's been, you know, raised here and born here? Did we come from a Puerto Rican family that has the vestiges of colonization, right? Did we come here-- are we Afro Latino? Are we mixed race?

Are we white? Are we-- what is our culture and history of civil rights, right? How have we determined our own future? And where have those limitations been? And I think the more we learn-- because I see a lot of defining of our community.

LILLIANA VAZQUEZ: Yep.

TANZINA VEGA: And not a lot of us saying, no, no, no. This is who I am. And I think that's where we need to lean in, if you will, is that we need to start defining ourselves instead of letting others define us. And I'll even-- as far as the word Latinx even, I think that's been a-- we've covered this on my show quite a bit is that even that among a lot of Latinos is something that some people like. Some people don't like. Some people don't want to use. Other people embrace entirely.

And I think it's a valid debate to have. And I think it's something that we as Latinos-- and again, this big group, right? We're talking about a huge group of millions of people who are so diverse. I mean, is there even a word? Should there even be a word that embodies all of us, right?

LILLIANA VAZQUEZ: I think-- I think that's the question. And I think as we learn more, and we challenge ourselves to define our own identity within us without making anyone else subscribe to that, I think that answer becomes clearer and clearer. But I don't think there's a right answer.

TANZINA VEGA: No, I don't.

LILLIANA VAZQUEZ: And I love that-- and I love that-- that conversation. You know, and I think what you said is right. You can disagree with someone without disrespecting who they are or what they believe in. And I think room for disagreement is how we grow and how we celebrate differences.

TANZINA VEGA: And that's how we got here, right? Like we got here to this point in our conversation because people were willing to challenge the status quo because they were willing to say I'm going to take this. And I'm not going to take that. And I think that that doesn't end because of where we are today.

In fact, it's evolving in a way that I can only hope will be even more robust in the sense that people will start to really take ownership, Latinos in general and Latinas and Latinxs and Latines will start to take ownership of their own identities and stop really assuming that we are, you know, things that people say that we are. We are who we define, you know. We have our own histories, our own culture, our own stories.

And I hope that this month, we celebrate them. But I really hope-- and I'm doing a lot of this work too, right? Looking through the census records of my family, trying to understand where people came from, what was their racial identity, right? Why did we do certain things? Understanding when you come from a family of Puerto Ricans, right, that colonial history behind that, the very, you know, the very progressive and civil rights history that we have in this-- in New York City even, right?

So there are a lot of stories that have been kept from us as-- as a Latino people, as Latinx, as Latines. And I think we need to really do the work to find out more about who we are. So we can really step into that power. That to me is the power that we have to identify ourselves and say, this is who I am.

LILLIANA VAZQUEZ: Absolutely. And I have to ask because you have taken on a new role, probably one of your biggest roles yet, as a mother. Congratulations.

TANZINA VEGA: Thank you so much.

LILLIANA VAZQUEZ: Do you find that-- in this new role, do you find that that also drives you to examine and learn more about this identity for your own child?

TANZINA VEGA: 100% it does. And it's something that I think about a lot. And it's interesting. I-- talking to other mothers of color who are, remember, I am not living in public housing right now, right? So my experience being a mother is very different than my own mother's experience and then her mother's experience, right? So we've gotten to a place where it's like, OK, first of all, I'm older, right? I'm a 40s mom. I'm a first-time mom. I'm a pandemic mom. Let's throw that into the mix, right?

I'm a full time journalist, right? And I have all these degrees and all. And so I did this later in life, which opens up so many other conversations, right? So where I am right now is a very different place.

And I think when speaking to other mothers of color who are also in this-- this sort of group of educated professional women of color, which is what my-- hopefully if I ever finish my upcoming book is going to focus on. You know, we're having those conversations like if I'm giving my kid kale, for example, right, is that a white people thing? Or is that just a healthy mom thing? Or is-- am I supposed to be giving him [SPEAKING SPANISH], right? Like how do-- I mean, little things--

LILLIANA VAZQUEZ: [SPEAKING SPANISH]

TANZINA VEGA: I want that, too. Like but it's like, OK, do I have the time to make it like my mom did? And like, you know, so there are all of these questions that-- cultural questions that are arising for me in this moment. And it's also, you know, I was-- I had no kids for many, many, many years. And I, you know, understood that world intimately. This is a very new world for me. I'm only eight months into it. I'm having a blast. I'm also really tired.

And it's just-- it's-- it's life-changing. You know, it really is. And I think, you know, it says if anybody, you know, I think women should need to be talking about this conversation too, right? We need to be talking more about do we want to be moms? Do we not want to be moms? I think both of those questions are totally-- the answers to both of those questions are valid. And I think we need to make space for more of that.

You know, part of me is very glad that I had so much experience in life not being in this space that-- because it allowed me to now understand, OK, this is so different than what I thought it was going to be. I have more empathy for mothers than I think I did as sort of someone who wasn't. It but I also have a lot of appreciation for not being a mom and for what that afforded me-- the time and the space to be able to do, right?

So I think, you know, I think women need to really embrace the tougher conversations that we may shy away from because we don't want to go there. I think we need to go there. Obviously, within trusted community, maybe not on IG live.

But, like, I think it's important for us to embrace those conversations as well and to make room for the women in our lives who aren't moms or who do want to help. And they don't have their own kids. But they just think, you know, this is a really important thing. And so to me it's really opened up a lot of things because I'm not a traditional mom in that sense, right? And so I embrace that. And it has its own set of challenges.

LILLIANA VAZQUEZ: Well, I can tell you this. I could spend the rest of the afternoon talking about all of this with you, I think-- motherhood, the choice not to be a mom, what it's like to be underrepresented, and how much work we still all have left to do in our chosen industry, which is media.

TANZINA VEGA: Yes.

LILLIANA VAZQUEZ: I just want to say thank you so much for being part of "MAKERS@Home." I do want to ask you one quick question before we go because it's almost done. While you've been home-- and I know that the baby has brought you much joy and much hope--

TANZINA VEGA: Yes.

LILLIANA VAZQUEZ: Is there anything else that while you've been home has made you incredibly hopeful?

TANZINA VEGA: Yes, gardening. And when I say gardening, let's-- let's not get excited here. I don't have a garden. I live in New York City. But I started planting a lot of plants. And it just gave me this sense of zen, this sense of peace that I just-- I mean, maybe it's-- I'm a mom now. And I don't know if that kind of ties into it.

But I didn't grow up with a backyard. I didn't know what any of that. So I have a little patch. And I started buying one plant, one plant, one plant, and then before you know it, by the time the peak of the virus hit, I was just like I had a ton of plants. I have about 15, 20 plants now. Some of them have made it. Some of them haven't. I've gotten to know them fairly well in terms of their personalities and their temperaments.

And I try to keep them all healthy and alive. But the truth is it-- like when I'm doing that, it just sort of calms me. It keeps me, like, OK, you know, things are-- things are OK. I can step out of this for a moment. And I think that we all need something that allows us to step out for a moment because this is a crazy time. So planting, and I even got a, like, a little apron to do it. It was kind of fun.

LILLIANA VAZQUEZ: Look at you with the--

TANZINA VEGA: I did.

LILLIANA VAZQUEZ: --accessories.

TANZINA VEGA: I did.

LILLIANA VAZQUEZ: Well, I--

TANZINA VEGA: It was very cute.

LILLIANA VAZQUEZ: I think we all need an escape, whether it's gardening or reading. Or for me, it was, like, literally organizing. I'm not an organizer. I've never been--

TANZINA VEGA: Can you come over and help me with that?

LILLIANA VAZQUEZ: Yeah.

TANZINA VEGA: That's the thing.

LILLIANA VAZQUEZ: Yes. We have a date.

TANZINA VEGA: OK.

LILLIANA VAZQUEZ: We have a date. As long as I can take some of your plants and like plant them here.

TANZINA VEGA: Yes. Yes.

LILLIANA VAZQUEZ: You're the best.

TANZINA VEGA: I'll give you one that's really easy. You can just ignore it. It'll be great.

LILLIANA VAZQUEZ: Well, Tanzina, I just want to say thank you so much for being a part of "MAKERS@Home" and for sharing in our celebration. And Dylan, I know you're in this room somewhere. But Dylan, thank you for sharing your platform with incredible women like Tanzina Vega. This has been an eye-opening conversation, I think I hope the start of many conversations that we're going to have with our own communities at home.

And of course, you guys, please follow her. Make sure you're also following The Takeaway and listening. It is definitely something you want to add to your playlist. It's incredibly empowering. And it's-- just so fun to listen to.

TANZINA VEGA: Thank you.

LILLIANA VAZQUEZ: And like you say, you make it so accessible. You take these big concepts. And the way that you're able to translate them for us and make me feel like I really get it, it's such a unique skill. And as someone who works in communications, honestly, like, kudos to you. It's such a difficult job to do. And you do it so effortlessly. So thank you.

TANZINA VEGA: I really appreciate that. Thank you so much. I-- part of it is me thinking, what would I want to know? Right? And just asking that question. So thank you. I really appreciate that. And I hope you guys can tune in. We also have a podcast. So if you miss us on broadcast, you can download our-- our podcast. And that has extended-- that's the extended cut. So that's got all the long interviews in it. So I hope you all participate in that and take a listen if you can. And I really appreciate you asking me to do this. Thank you.

LILLIANA VAZQUEZ: My pleasure. Thank you so much and congratulations again. We're so happy for you.

TANZINA VEGA: Thank you. Thank you.

LILLIANA VAZQUEZ: Bye.

TANZINA VEGA: Bye.

LILLIANA VAZQUEZ: Well, guys, thank you so much for hanging out with us here at "MAKERS@Home." Have a little housekeeping business to do at the end. I hope you enjoyed our conversation with Tanzina, of course, from The Takeaway.

Definitely download the podcast. Listen to the show. There's amazing clips online. She truly is such an amazing voice in media both as a journalist but also as someone who represents this incredibly rich community as a Boricua, as a Latina in New York City.

Before you guys go, quick reminder-- if you want more from me and more amazing conversations with thought leaders and just women that you need to know, definitely download "DNA of a MAKER" podcast. It's a podcast that I host. Amazing stories and I think you will be inspired to step into your own leadership skills and what's next for you just by listening to "DNA of a MAKER." It is honestly like soul food, seriously, soul food.

I also want to remind you guys that there's a new MAKERS documentary coming out. It is called "Not Done." It premieres on October 27. That is my 13-year wedding anniversary. But more importantly, it is the date that "Not Done" releases on PBS. Make sure you set a calendar reminder. Put an alert in. Tell Siri to do it. Tell Google Home to do it. Just set the reminder. You're going to want to watch this documentary. And don't forget to follow The Takeaway. Follow me at @LiliannaVazquez.

And we will be back for another episode on Thursday MAKERS@HOME celebrating Hispanic Heritage Month. This time, I am sitting down with playwright and executive producer Tanya Saracho. She is someone that I respect so much in this industry. And I cannot wait for you guys to hear that conversation.

So thank you for your time today. It means the world to me that you're willing to give me 42 minutes of your time on a Tuesday to share things that are important to this community and continue to amplify and highlight the beauty that is the Latinx community. So have a great rest of your day. And I will see you back here on MAKERS@HOME on Thursday. Bye.