The rise of the offensive defenceman

Vancouver Canucks' blueliner Quinn Hughes leads the NHL in points and he's not the only defenceman on track for a point-per-game season or better, highlighting a growing trend of D-men who think offence first.

Video Transcript

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NICK ASHBOURNE: Anthony, we are recording at a moment that seems like-- I don't know. This is probably an exaggeration, but a bit of a mini golden age for offensive defenseman and production from the blue line. As we record today, Quinn Hughes is the NHL leader in points, which is something I don't think anyone expected coming to this season. And I don't think anyone expects it to necessarily last, but at this point, there are seven defensemen who have played at least 10 games and are on a point-a-game pace. We're talking about guys like Makar, Adam Fox, of course, Hughes, Evan Bouchard, Victor Hedman.

These are players who if they were to finish-- Charlie McAvoy-- players who if they were going to finish the season at that kind of rate, I don't think anyone would be shocked by that necessarily. But you don't have to back too far in time when the idea of a point-a-game defenseman was extremely unusual. Like when Brent Burns had his 83 point season, that was the first time since the mid-90s that someone had gone over 82 points.

Karlsson had done it a few years before, and we had this 100 point season from Karlsson last year. What do you attribute to this boom? And there's been an offensive boom in the NHL overall over the last couple of years. That can't be overstated. But it seems like in particular, some of these ace-level defensemen, these guys are producing at a level we just haven't seen in the last 10 years, in the last 15 years, however you want to widen the clock back until you get to that point in the 80s where people are scoring on a ridiculous amount of shots and you've got Paul Coffey and those guys floating around. So it does seem like we're looking at a different moment right now.

- Yeah. So it's interesting. It was interesting to-- phrasing it like an exaggeration, but maybe a golden era of defensemen. Unless this is just the norm moving forward-- meaning defensemen realistically, a couple-- getting a point per game each season-- maybe one or two pushing 90-plus kind of thing-- this would literally be, then, a golden generation.

Karlsson over 100 points, first defenseman since 1991, 1992 to do it. And you look at point totals for defensemen over in that gap period. It was-- if you had-- Mike Green led defencemen in scoring with 73 points one season. I think he did it with 76 another. Erik Karlsson led defensemen in scoring one year with 66, and now he's over 100 older, and I would say less ability, just based on how talented he really was early on now compared to back then.

But he's getting way more points. So I don't-- this might really just be a watershed moment. I think when you look at it, it's a really interesting thing in terms of how defensemen are getting used, and really, how forwards are defending. I think that's just as big of a story here as it is the defensemen. A lot of what we're seeing is far side defensemen activate. They're becoming legitimate fourth forwards off the rush.

If you really look at it in zone, fairly often, they really are just playing the points more often than not. It's not like you're seeing Quinn Hughes lead the league in scoring because he goes and chills in the slot like he's Danny Heatley and lets off a one-timer of some kind. He's often getting his end zone points power play side very much from the point. It's the stuff that they're doing in neutral zone transition of-- it's really that far side guy who is activating as a trailer as a high back door-type play.

And so a lot of that really comes back to forwards just not properly checking in the neutral zone to me. I see a lot of really poor defense and a lot of really poor back checking in the NHL, especially on nondescript games as the season goes along until playoffs, and then we actually see teams backcheck and check tightly. And then you get into you actively just need offense from the blue line, meaning point shots through traffic because there's no other space.

But we're really seeing this push now where defensemen are skilled. That is the calling card of defensemen. It's not-- Adam Foote's one of the best defensemen in the league. He's this huge, physical guy. It's oh, you're a Quinn Hughes type. You're skilled, you're fast, you can join the rush. You can rip passes to the guys. You can shoot through traffic. It's just a completely different generation of defensemen to me.

NICK ASHBOURNE: Yeah. I think it's important, also, when you get proof of concept. When Burns does it, when Karlsson does it, I think it allows coaches to have a little bit more tolerance for seeing their guys try something similar, because there's a time-- like the way defensemen are playing now-- if you had someone playing that way, I don't know in, 2004, then the coach would have a hard time accepting the level of risk that these guys are taking.

I do want to push back a little bit on the idea that the guys do everything from the point, just because I was working on something on Quinn Hughes today. And one thing that a lot of guys have stopped doing is just ripping slap shots. The decline of the slap shot in the NHL is massive. So a lot of these players are getting the puck at the point. But they're coming down, and they're letting rip shots go in more dangerous areas. And that is making them better scorers.

Quinn Hughes was a pretty useless scorer prior to this season. He'd never topped eight goals. Useless is unfair, but you know what I mean. He'd never been an impact scorer, and he's taking a lot-- much higher percentage of his shots from mid-range slot type of areas, because he's passing up that slap shot and using the wrist shot instead. And I think that getting defensemen away from just hammering it from the point every time.

And as you say, in the playoffs sometimes that's the best you can do. But getting defensemen away from just hammering the puck from the point is something that is getting to more dangerous areas where that's a dangerous area to shoot from or to dish from. It can kind of go either way. The other thing is just the power play component. So you've got the power play where the vast, vast majority of teams are using a single defender. So a lot of the times, that guy is playing, I don't know, a minute 30 out of your two minutes on any power play.

That guy's the fulcrum at the top of the zone. And power plays have become more efficient too. The leaguewide power play percentage used to be closer to 15%. Now it's 20%. So when you have guys who are spending the vast majority of the time on this power play, and they're not passing between the points. It's one guy up top who's usually the defenseman. That, I think, is creating a bit of an explosion. Now to be fair, that's not how Erik Karlsson did it.

Last year, Karlsson didn't have an enormous amount of power play points. He's a little bit of a different case. But when you look at some of the other guys like Quinn Hughes the season, and it's just a great way to goose your point total is to be that guy at the top of the zone who's just dishing one way left, right, one timer. And it's like you get those secondary assists--

ANTHONY PETRIELLI: JT Miller top of the circle. He walks in and rips one. Free assist.

NICK ASHBOURNE: It's like, you didn't really do anything. You were just kind of there. But the guy who's kind of there is-- now he's the same guy, and it's one guy the whole time. So it is one of those things-- like you mentioned, I think it's interesting the idea that Erik Karlsson hasn't necessarily gotten better. The environment has changed.

I think the power play is one of those things. Are the defensemen today better at running a power play than they used to be? Not necessarily, but power plays overall are better, and their role in the power play probably involves a little bit more puck touches than it used to.

ANTHONY PETRIELLI: It's kind of funny, too. So first, let me get back to the end zone thing, because I did want to note that. The main point I was trying to make more so is that if you watch end zone offense, it's not like defensemen are becoming fourth forwards by and large in the zone. They're very much-- even though Quinn is moving up more and he's taking wrist shots through traffic and that kind of thing, he's still very much watching by and large, unless it's a set face off play where they come down low.

NICK ASHBOURNE: It's when he gets the puck. It's not that he's hanging out in the slot. It's when he gets the puck, he's choosing to move down, or another defensemen are.

ANTHONY PETRIELLI: Yeah. So you're watching guys get freed up a little bit more in that sense. But you're not watching-- Roman Josi, on the other hand, you watch him and you're like-- they'll have like a shift for like 30 seconds where you're like, yeah, he's actually a forward. He's not [INAUDIBLE].

NICK ASHBOURNE: I love Roman Josi. Absolutely one of my top five favorite players to watch.

ANTHONY PETRIELLI: He's reckless abandon fun. He's just like, I'm going in, and whatever happens happens. And if they get a two on one, they get a two on one. If we get a scoring chance, we get a scoring chance. But by and large, we're not seeing guys do that. We're actively seeing them-- they're maybe be a bit more aggressive when they get the puck.

I think defensemen are-- definitely they walk the line better. I think they're more open to making plays on the blue line than 15 years ago. 15 years ago, you make a play on the blue line, you lose it, they score, you're done. Your night's over. You can untie your skates on the bench, and you can just sit and watch.

The tolerance for that is definitely-- it's completely shifted. We'll see guys-- we'll see defenseman now, they'll actively toe drag guys on the blue line at five on five. We've-- everyone saw that clip of Karlsson a few years ago, where he danced Phil Kessel at the blue line. You couldn't dream of doing that kind of stuff not that long ago. The second thing is the power play, which is kind of funny, because it's almost counterintuitive in a sense that you're taking defensemen off the power play, because it used to by and large be two defensemen.

So ergo, you're now reducing the opportunity for the position to score. But because you're adding in another forward that's actually just a better scorer, you are in turn greasing up the point totals of the one defenseman who gets the power play time.

NICK ASHBOURNE: Yeah. The pie's getting bigger. There's fewer people who are biting at that pie, and the pie is just growing. And you-- and every team has that one guy. And you see it now. There's a lot of teams that have a second offensive defenseman, and that guy gets lost a little bit because they're not able to run the first power play, and they're not able to have the same kind of offensive impact as they would have when they're playing 40 seconds on the power play, and they're not necessarily playing the first pair. It kind of behooves you to have one awesome offensive defenseman these days.

ANTHONY PETRIELLI: I also think it's-- and this is a tougher, deeper conversation-- but I also think it's important to flag the types of players who are now becoming defensemen. Quinn Hughes is not a traditionally built defenseman. Even Roman Josi, for that matter. Cale Makar is. He's big and powerful, and he's strong. And when he hits guys, it hurts them. He can actively dish it physically. I'm not saying those other guys are incapable of hitting or anything like that. But if you were making a defenseman's body in a lab, it wouldn't be those guys. That's just the reality of it. That's the truth.

NICK ASHBOURNE: It wouldn't be Hughes, for sure.

ANTHONY PETRIELLI: And the thing is, I think a lot of-- I think what's happening, too, even in the minor hockey ranks-- and this is what works its way up to these guys all becoming defensemen-- is everyone wanted their kids to be centers growing up, because centers got to follow the puck around like a puppy dog. And they'd always be around it, and what parent doesn't love their kid having the puck? But two things happen on defense. You play more, and you get the puck more.

So a lot of-- now it's actually a lot easier to have a really good player and say you're going to play defense because you're going to play half the game, which you're not going to do it forward, because you won't have the energy. And the puck is going to be on your stick the whole time. You're going to control everything right in front of your face. It's easier for kids on defense to just wind up and go end to end than a center who has to navigate his own defensemen behind him, and everybody else around him pick it up and go about it that way.

If you're a defenseman, you turn it over in transition, you're gone. It's caught. It's over. So I think we're seeing a lot more of those talented type players where they're actively sitting there saying yeah, I'm happy to play defense. I'm going to play a ton. I'm going to get the puck a ton. As long as my coach isn't going to prevent me from making plays with the puck, I'm happy to do it. It's more ice time. Why wouldn't you want to be there?

NICK ASHBOURNE: Yeah, it's a sexier position now. I think of NFL football, for instance. It used to be that being a running back was what you wanted to be, and the most talented, most athletic kids were put at running back, and those were the superstars. Those were the guys who scored the touchdowns. And now because it became more of a passing league, being a wide receiver-- partly because of the injury concerns, but becoming a wide receiver became the sexier thing to do. And there's a lot more kids playing that seven-on-seven football, and then a lot of the elite athletes get channeled there instead when some of those guys might have been running backs growing up because that's where the money is.

That's where the game is going. And I think you're seeing a similar thing in hockey with these type of-- yeah, like you said, these skilled defensemen who can really skate defense, who can run a power play. And it might be that if we had this conversation again in 15 years, maybe there's 15, 20 guys who are going to a point a game. And most teams have a number one scoring defensemen as almost a position, the same way we think of a number one 200 foot center.

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