CBCN - Sunday, May 26, 2024 - 12:00 a.m. (ET) - Segment #2

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villages and people living down the stream. >> Reporter: the landslide also blocked the main highway to the area, slowing the arrival of military, medics, and other aid agencies. >> People are buried at a depth of six to eight metres, and every minute that passes decreases our good feelings. >> We are really trying to just keep in touch with what's going onto hear what it is we could possibly support them in, but until they get into the area, the only other access likely is a helicopter. >> Reporter: officials say landslides are uncommon in this area, but there have been rumbles recently and heavy rains in the area brought by the la nina if he nomphenomenon. >> Deana: and these are before and after images of iowa before and after twisters hit portions of the state. Officials say entire buildings and homes have been reduced to heaps of rubble. >>> Violence has marred the french cup soccer final. Olympique lyonniaais and paris saint-germain were set to compete in the final. >> Andrew Chang: May is Asian Heritage Month. Join us in celebrating the many contributions that Asian Canadians make to Canada. Yeah, I like to swing. And I like to get Cash Back when I swing. Cha-Ching. So I use the free Rakuten browser extension when I shop. Now I never miss Cash Back or deals. Just download the browser extension and shop as usual. And click to activate Cash Back or coupons at hundreds of stores. It's so easy... I've even turned the neighbours on to it. We're all swinging now. Cha-ching. ( ) In here... you can expect to find... crystal clear audio... expansive display space... endless entertainment... and more comfort for everyone... But even with all that... we still left room... for all the unpredictability... spontaneity.. and unexpected things... you'll find out here... Jeep. Grand Cherokee. The most awarded suv ever. ( ) That's a dq Chicken Strip Basket! Oh look at those tasty dq chicken strips. And fries! Plus all the dips! Oh let's order one, right now! Dq. Happy Tastes Good. Bleeding gums? Hold on. It could be a sign of gingivitis. Listerine mouthwash contains antibacterial essential oils that kill up to 99.9% of germs and fight plaque and gingivitis. Listerine. Trusted for generations. With 125 years of germ-killing power. Do you hear that?It's a wood thrush. Songbirds lift, ourhearts, bring us joy, support healthy environmentsand connect us with nature. Sadly, due tofree roaming cats, collisions withbuildings and habitat loss, over a quarter of Canada'sbirds have disappeared. It's heartbreaking. With your help, Nature Canadahas mobilized thousands of Canadians for morethan 85 years to protect and celebrate birds. To find out how youcan save bird lives, go to birds dotNature Canada dot ca. [dramatic] Announcer:What's new? What's breaking?

What's really going on? CBC News Network.All the news. Live. >> Rosemary:At Issue this week, bad language, decorum inside the House of Commons seems to be deteriorating. >> The Conservative leader is wearing more makeup than I am today. >> Rosemary: This week, the Deputy Prime Minister had to apologize for that comment and the Leader of the Opposition can't seem to give up this criticism. >> With so many empty stomachs, isn't it just a little bit wacko we raising carbon taxes on farmers and food? >> Rosemary: An election is still months away; is this a preview of what's to come? I'm Rosemary Barton, Let's bring inAt Issue to break it all down tonight, Chantal Hébert, Andrew Coyne, and Althia Raj, good to see you all. I should tell Canadians who don't, aren't privy to the bubble of Ottawa that this is, we've now entered what we call Silly Season here, where for the next five weeks, M.P.s do not get to go back to their ridings for a week, and things generally kind of get a little kooky. But this is the first week of that. So I'm not sure where we're gonna end up by the end of June. Althia, in a more serious note, what do you make of sort of the tenor of discourse and debate, given Chrystia Freeland's comments and Pierre Poilievre, too. >> Two things. One, I think the Liberals have decided to fight fire with fire, which I'm not sure is actually a good look for them. It's a long ways away from hope and hard work. But you see that especially from the front bench, so Ms. Freeland, the Prime Minister, who are going out of their way to attack the Conservative leader, sometimes in personalized terms. The other thing that I think they're trying to do, and you've seen that this week, is tie Mr. Poilievre with a strategy that worked for them in 2019 and 2021, which is to paint the Conservative leader as a phony. 2019, we had that with Andrew Scheer, and you know, he was a dual citizen, he never told anybody and he was attacking other Liberals and the Governor General at the time, [indistinct] being a dual citizen, with Erin O'Toole, they had it on vaccine mandates, on carbon pricing, on abortion, on guns. And you see that again, starting to happen with the Conservative leader. So after Ms. Freeland apologized and withdrew her comments, she called them a phony. And they have started laying the groundwork again, on the abortion question, a tried and true formula for the Liberals, but also you get the inkling that they might go there on carbon pricing. They went there today on homelessness, on support for our veterans. So I think those two things have given actually the Liberals a bit of a swing in their step. They seem much happier this week than they have previously from their week in their constituency and their slight rise in public opinion polls. >> Rosemary: And Chantal, I mean, that's about like, framing a leader which obviously everyone wants to do, right, to try and paint a picture of someone. But those kinds of personalized attacks that are pretty petty, to be honest. Does that, like, tend to work? Or is that anything that Canadians would be listening to and think, 'oh, you know, she's right'? >> She's right that he's wearing more makeup than she is. If she were he and he were she and he had made that comment, that person who is a man saying that to a woman in the House of Commons would be in deep trouble today. So it's a stupid comment, but it's also a demeaning comment. And that didn't particularly work. Why should anyone stop doing whatever serious things they're doing to worry about the makeup on the face of the Leader of the Opposition or the Minister of Finance? Yes, it is silly season. Does anybody remember the elbowing episode when the Prime Minister stormed the across the aisle some years ago at the same time in the session, because he was angry that it was taking too long to get a vote under way? So we have seen unpleasant scenes in the past. I've rarely seen, and I covered Thomas Mulcair and Stephen Harper, and despite that I've rarely seen two main leaders dislike each other so personally as a Justin Trudeau and Pierre Poilievre, and prone to show it openly, but to the framing of the opposition leader. The Liberals may want to look back in history to how the Conservatives are successful in framing Stephen Ziele when he was Liberal leader, and then Michael Ignatieff. But when they tried that with Justin Trudeau, it wasn't third time it works, it just didn't work. And I suspect that we are in that place in the cycle where what worked for Scheer, which worked for O'Toole will not work for Poilievre. >> Rosemary: Well, I would also argue, Andrew that they, Scheer and O'Toole gave

much more ammunition to, Althia listed some of them, to the Liberal's, to their point, but talk to me about where you think this debate, like the level of debate tells us about where we're at. >> Well, I mean, I can think of a hundred things wrong with Canadian politics and parliamentary decorum wouldn't be 101st. When politicians are attacking each other, they're at least closer to the truth than when they're praising themselves, and for all that's going on in Parliament, I can assure you that a lot worse is happening on social media and a lot worse will be happening during the campaign with the political advertising. Personal attacks are the bread and butter of politics, I'm afraid to say. We talked about, you know, framing or defining, let's call it what it is, smearing, and that's what they do to each other. So that has become part of the, as I say, the whoop and woof of politics. There's no doubt that Pierre Poilievre has brought a particularly snippy elbows-up style to Canadian politics in general and including his demeanor in Parliament, but the Liberals have a number of ways of showing contempt for parliament procedurally. This is government that has, you know, stonewalled committee, has refused to let witnesses appear before them, refused to release documents that Parliament had commanded, demanded one of the absolute undoubted prerogatives of Parliament. So between, you know, procedural contempt, and rhetorical sneers, I think I know which is worse for Parliament, except with the proviso that if Poilievre were in power, we'd probably be getting both. Each party comes into power vowing to clean up the mess left by the other guys, and then just does it, takes it to a new level, in terms of the demeaning of Parliament and of M.P.s roles as the people's representatives. And I'll just close with this point that when you see people behaving as childishly, as M.P.s do, it is usually a signal of their own lack of self respect. If parliamentarians were a bigger deal, if a to be a Member of Parliament was a more important and dignified position, I suspect you'd see less of the kind of barracking and childish displays that you do. But when people are basically there to stand up and sit down when they're told, that's the behaviour you tend to get. >> Rosemary: Maybe, I mean, I think social media is a pretty big factor to, you made that point as well, Chantal. >> Except when the Liberals invented what was called the Rat Pack, basically a group of M.P.s whose only goal in life was to make Parliament life impossible for the Mulroney government. There was no social media. And still, that is the antics that they got down to. So up to a point, if that puts a spring in the step of Liberal M.P.s, and Althia would see that, I wouldn't, I'm sitting in Montreal, then they're in pretty bad shape. Because there is nothing that you've watched. Do you think Chrystia Freeland and people around her are proud of her tonight? Does it enhance her reputation to look like that? It doesn't. So if that's where they're at that this is the kind of stuff that makes them happy, God, that Kool-Aid must be really good. >> I mean, if you're going to be objectionable, you should at least be comprehensible. I mean, does anybody know what on earth that line was trying to get at other than I guess Poilievre was wearing makeup but what did that have to do with anything, you know? I mean, the thing that's interesting about Poilievre in that regard is, to talk about the Rat Pack, is it used to be that the leader stayed above the fray and you left the dirty work to your backbench M.P.s, and indeed you left the appeals to the extremes to your henchmen rather than the leader tried to take a moderate thing. With Poilievre, he's the guy who is keeping the People's Party people in the tent and he's the guy who's still his own best attack dog. So he's pioneering a new style of leadership politics in that regard. >> Rosemary: Last quick word to you, Althia? >> Well, I think with the makeup comment, what she was trying to say is that or paint the picture that he is a phony, that like, the people outside Ottawa don't realize that, you know what, what he pretends he is, it may not be who he is. I think that's in that frame. I think the reason that the Liberals are going to such lengths is because frankly, they don't have any money. They're not advertising. They're not spending any money on social media pushing out any ads whatsoever. So they decided to use their own politicians to deliver that message. I don't think that's a wise strategy. >> Rosemary: Okay. I'm gonna take a break here, but we covered makeup and decorum and everything we could in that block. When we come back, we'll look at the Parti Québecois and their appeals to Anglo voters in the province. >> It pays off to be independent. >> Rosemary: So why is the Parti Québecois was doing that? And is Québec independence back on the table? Did it ever leave? That's next. Hey, let's go, man. [laughter] You're one of my favourite interviewers. Announcer: Q with Tom Power. Available now onCBC Listen or wherever you get your podcasts. Let's go for a skate, and a little chat.

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government's could not get, except at the time of the Meech Lake Accord and Jacques Parizeau, but two things. The more Paul St-Pierre Plamondon, that's his name, talks about sovereignty, the more you see some regions starting to think again about the P.Q., the Québec City area, for instance, is now edging away from the Parti Québecois. The other thing to know about Québec is the Québec Liberals at this point do not have a leader. But recent polls have suggested very mildly that the return of this issue might actually be the kiss of life for the Québec Liberals. >> Rosemary: Interesting. Andrew, what are you thinking when you see all that and we hear Chantal? >> Well, I agree with everything Chantal said that a lot can happen in the next two years that could confound the P.Q.'s ambitions. I think that particular point about the Liberals, this being the kiss of life for the Liberals, and therefore, returning to the polarization around that issue that has served both the P.Q. and the Liberals well over the years, is well taken. But let's not kid ourselves. If the P.Q. gets in, in spite of, rather than because of their stance on the referendum, they will no doubt seize the opportunity. And certainly the opportunity to try to provoke confrontations, particularly over immigration. And so we need to be thinking about that. I will note that this, this return to the fray follows several years in which the the CAQ government has been watching one constitutional provocation after another and has had no serious response from any political leader in Ottawa. And I don't think that's coincidental that we have to I guess keep relearning this lesson that when Québec nationalists push and nobody pushes back in Ottawa, when the leadership acts as if they don't believe the country has any moral foundation, they don't believe we have a right to exist or to exist as a coherent federation, then Québecers are entitled to draw the appropriate conclusion of if they don't care about it why should we? So this attempt to sort of buy piece by just staying "vewy, vewy quiet", I think is, we ought to have learned doesn't work. And we'll we'll learn that lesson in spades as the P.Q. gets back in. >> Rosemary: Yeah, I mean, I guess it's about not sticking, you know, putting a stick in through the cage, right? I mean, that's what some Federal leaders believe works in this case, but I take your point. Althia. >> Yeah, it's about not inflaming. It's not just feelings that are held by sovereigntists in Québec, but by the general population. So if you inflame on Bill 21, as the Liberals have learned, if you inflame on Bill 96, which is the language bill, you're worried about your seat count come the next election. And if you're the Liberal Party, you know, a significant chunk of your seats come from Québec so that's not a risk that you're willing to take. And you may also philosophically think that it's not worth creating a fight, giving the sovereigntist a front on which to attack you and attack the federation. I think it's really interesting that the P.Q. is advertising in English. I think, frankly, it's positive because at least it makes Anglophones feel like they're in Québec, that they're part of a Québec project and not, you know, on the sidelines and not included in the idea of what a Québec nation or country would look like. His argument about the financial incentive to separate to me make absolutely no sense. It's not even factually accurate. So I don't know why he is choosing that front. I think one legit criticism and concern shared by many Québecers is the immigration question, is the idea that not just immigration in Québec, and this is like, you know, not having control over the borders with the asylum seekers coming in at Roxham Road etc., but also immigration in the rest of Canada means that the weight of francophone Québecers has significantly dropped or just even of Québecers has has dropped, you know, there used to be, I think it's 27.5% of Francophones in the country and 1975, and now we're down at 22% or something of the sort. So, continuously, every time we have a redistricting of the seats in the House of Commons, basically, Québec gets an additional seat grandfathered in, because their population doesn't justify the weight that they have. And there are concerns that, you know, the more immigrants there are in the province and outside of the province, the less important Québec becomes, and the less important French become. So I think that is a legitimate criticism, and that is a criticism that Federal leaders come the next election will absolutely have to deal with, and if the P.Q. is leading in the polls, I think one question will be who can speak to-- who can be Captain Canada, and I think the leaders will be judged on that front. >> Rosemary: Chantal. >> I can see things that the Conservative party and government under its current leader could do to make more Québecers interested in the sovereignty issue, and on matters that have nothing to do with the Constitution, or even immigration, but that have to do with climate change, with the future

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