Joel Embiid, Nikola Jokic MVP debate shows lack of clarity in criteria

On the latest episode of Hustle Play, Alvin Williams and Chris Boucher give their takes on who's the MVP this season and the cloudy definition of the award.

Video Transcript

- We're talking a little bit about Joel Embiid. We're talking about Jokic. You mentioned Giannis. Alvin, I'll go to you, here, first. In your eyes, who do you see as the MVP of the NBA this season?

ALVIN WILLIAMS: Man, don't matter what I think. You should talk to the man is playing.

- Oh, we're going to get to him.

ALVIN WILLIAMS: But no, you know what? I don't really feel the MVP conversation because, for me, they put the narrative out there so early. The first week, the first month of the season, they start talking about MVP candidates. It was the Joker. It was Embiid, Giannis, Luka, Ja. There's a lot of other people that could be valuable to their team or whatever.

But for me, it's a two-way player, somebody impacts the game on the offensive side and the defensive side. So for now, I look at somebody like Embiid who hasn't missed as many games as Giannis-- yeah, Joker is-- he's very, very good, but I think it's a two-way player, somebody that impacts the game both ways. So Joker-- Giannis or Embiid-- Embiid with the front runner-- being the front runner.

- CB, let me know your opinion because you got a taste of all these guys.

ALVIN WILLIAMS: He sure has.

CHRIS BOUCHER: I'm, for sure, giving it to Joel. I feel like, for years, he had plenty of time where he should have been-- could have been. I think, this year, the record-- he's impacting their team a lot, on offense and on defense. For somebody-- they said that he ain't play in a lot of games and all that. He's played in most of the games this year, even the backs-to-backs.

Their culture seems to be-- he seems to want it a little bit more. And you got to give him some credit somewhere through all these years and all the stuff that he's doing and trust the progress. I feel like he's trusted enough to get it this time, especially with what he's doing.

He's really a talented person. Just-- the way that he plays the game, he seems to have his own pace now. But he has James Harden in the team, [INAUDIBLE] and all that, and he seems to all plug it in for everybody. So I would give it to him.

- Now, Alvin, we see a lot, when we're watching ESPN and we see guys like JJ Redick and Kendrick Perkins arguing over this stuff. But when you look at the MVP race, how much do you factor in analytics? Because they go really far when it comes to analytics. They use it to discuss pretty much everything, and they go really in depth.

So how much do you consider that more than the eye test? Like, a lot of people-- they look at Jokic. They see all the triple-doubles he's having. But then the other argument when you're looking at Embiid is the way that he plays defense and just using your eye test, watching the game. How do you--

ALVIN WILLIAMS: Who votes for the MVP?

- I don't know, a bunch of people in the media?

ALVIN WILLIAMS: So the only way you're going argue your point is through analytics because they're not in their every day. They're not guarding them. They're not seeing the impact of how they impact the game. They don't know that. So you can see-- you can see the stats. You can see all that. So that's my-- well, he averaged 31 and 13. He averaged the most clutch points in the end of the last game-- whatever-- all those things which help their argument.

But like I said, there's a lot of players that could be up for that running. I remember when Russell Westbrook got MVP the year he averaged a triple-double. And their team was fifth in the West. He averaged a triple-double the next year-- he didn't come close to getting MVP.

So how do you equate that? And you hear, a lot of times, people talk about the goalpost moves-- the team is not winning. The team is winning. The stats-- leading scorers. Those people are the people that vote on it. They have to use analytics to support their argument.

- Chris, are you kind of confused by the criteria of how you--

CHRIS BOUCHER: I seriously don't care. I really don't care. Until I play you or I watch-- obviously, we watch game. If I play you and you were really good and you impacted the game and then I watched five other game and you're still doing it, I couldn't care less what your-- what [? Farkins ?] is saying. It's all nice, but you guys are just watching the game from the outside. You know what I'm saying?

That's a perfect example I'll give you. Thad does so much on the team right now, just by keeping us together, by talking, being a great leader. But he don't get no credit for that. It's the same thing about that best player that you see. You don't know what he does to his team. Maybe they don't like to play with him. You don't know that stuff.

To me, MVP should be you're the most valuable player on your team, everywhere, in everything. We need you for everything. If you can't do all of that, it's cool to score 30 points a game, but are you helping us on defense? Are you giving us 30 but you're causing us 30? At the end of the day, if that's the case, then you're not doing anything.

And that's the reason why-- when-- another thing is when I watch that, I just feel like they just hop on whoever they like. Because the critique is never the same. Every year it's different. Today it's because he averaged a triple-double, like you said about Jokic. Next year, if Joel Embiid averaging triple-double, they might give it to Jayson Tatum because he's first seed and they won 60 games. Who knows? You get what I'm saying? So at this point, I just don't listen about it. Whoever wins it, I'm happy for them, but whatever.

ALVIN WILLIAMS: And those things that you see on ESPN, they hot takes. That's something to have a conversation or something to start a debate. And there's people that's not at practice half the today, and with their family the other half, and getting their body rested. It's for us that watch it on TV 'cause we just chilling.

We ain't got no time. That's what it is. So they figured that-- they figured their lane out, that market. But at the end of the day, like Chris said, there's no blueprint. There's nothing there that say, this is why this person is an MVP, for real, for real.