Honda and Chrysler EV news, and talking with GM's charging ecosystem boss | Autoblog Podcast #781

In this episode of the Autoblog Podcast, Editor-in-Chief Greg Migliore is joined by Senior Editor, Green, John Beltz Snyder. They're excited about the news of the possibility of an electric sports car being revealed for Honda's 75th anniversary, as well as the completely revamped — redesigned and renamed — Chrysler Airflow. They've been driving the Bentley Bentayga EWB, Range Rover, Toyota GR Corolla and the refreshed Buick Encore GX. We listen to a interview Greg conducted with GM's EV charging boss, Hoss Hassani. Finally, a reader is looking to help his in-laws choose an SUV, possibly a hybrid or EV, to replace a BMX X3.

Send us your questions for the Mailbag and Spend My Money at: Podcast@Autoblog.com.

Video Transcript

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GREG MIGLIORE: Welcome back to "The Autoblog Podcast." I'm Greg Migliore. We got an awesome show for you today. We're going to talk about what the Chrysler Airflow concept is, perhaps, becoming. And it won't be called Airflow, at least we don't think so.

Will there be an electric S-2000? Well, I don't know. That's a pretty big teaser. Stick around and see how we're going to riff on that one. We've been driving a lot of cool things like the Bentley Bentayga, Range Rover, and the GR Corolla-- maybe a few other things we'll try to get to.

Later in the show, I talked to Hoss Hassani. He's the Vice President of EV Charging and the Ecosystem for General Motors. We'll catch up with him and hear about all things on the grid with GM. Finally, we will spend some money. So with that, I'm going to bring in senior editor for all things electric John Snyder. How are you, man?

JOHN SNYDER: I'm doing great. This is beautiful weather for driving something like an S-2000-- kind of crisp, and cool, and sunny, hasn't gotten humid yet. It's like perfect.

GREG MIGLIORE: I put my flowers in a couple of days ago-- like, I go through these, like, spring, like, chores that I kind of like to do. But I think that I probably should have gone with the mulch first, because we had, like, almost a frost last night. Now, they look fine--

JOHN SNYDER: I know, it got really cold.

GREG MIGLIORE: It was cold.

JOHN SNYDER: Yeah. Yeah, I woke up and it was 55 degrees in my house this morning. I was like, oh my god. I actually turned the heat on, which don't tell my wife.

GREG MIGLIORE: No, no, same. I had the heat on. And I, like, literally-- it actually kicked on, because the morning, like, backyard when the dog decided to go out, it was, like, 36 degrees. So yeah, man, it's just-- who knows? Permafrost, if you will.

JOHN SNYDER: But yeah, but now, I mean, it's already in the 50s and going to be up in the mid 60s. Perfect.

GREG MIGLIORE: Going to be a good day. Clear skies. Yeah, it's a good time to drive something sporty. So let's see, what do we want to kick off first with? Airflow or EV sports car from Honda? Dealer's choice. What do you think, flip a coin?

JOHN SNYDER: Let's go with the Honda EV.

GREG MIGLIORE: Yeah, yeah, that's cool. So I'm intrigued by this. This is the concept that we all really knew and loved. And the subhead is prelude coming back. What do you think they're doing here?

JOHN SNYDER: I don't know, to be honest. You know, we saw the S-2000 when Honda had its 50th anniversary. And we're coming up-- I mean, this year is the 75th anniversary.

So it could be-- it could be something this year. But who knows, they might wait for till the 80th anniversary for something big if they don't have something quite ready. Some of that is based on whether-- they've kind of committed to solid state batteries.

And that's not going to be ready for a few more years. So maybe we'll see something this year and sort of previewing something for five years down the road. But you know, Tom Gardner, Honda's European VP, has said, you know, basically, watch this space, referencing how the S-2000 came along for the 50th anniversary. I'm intrigued.

GREG MIGLIORE: Very much. Very much. Like, I like that the tea leaves are kind of being strewn for the S-2000. Because another theory is maybe they go more with, like, somewhat of a practical route like the Prelude, which great name, great history.

But I would argue with just, like, the Civic SI, and the Civic Type R, and the Integra, Honda Motor Co. broad strokes has covered that space.

JOHN SNYDER: Yeah. I mean, that would be the safe move. And I'm sure they could do something to make the car sort of different than those-- give it its own flavor that someone who wants a Civic SI-- you know, this is going to feel different, like a completely different thing.

But I would love to see them take the risk and do a droptop. I saw someone driving down the road in a convertible the other day with the top down. And I just feel like that's something I don't see nearly as much as I did 10 years ago, even.

And the same with hot hatches-- we'll get to that later. But I mean, there's these formats that I've loved and have seemed to have just gone by the wayside as we go toward bigger vehicles. So if we're going to get something sporty, why not take that risk and go with a convertible?

GREG MIGLIORE: Yeah. No, I agree. And I think when you look at what would really be, like, the image booster, I think S-2000 really goes into that bucket, because it's such an iconic car.

JOHN SNYDER: Oh, man. That was such a great car. The shift-- I mean, that's the thing is it'd be tough to sort of recreate that feeling.

GREG MIGLIORE: Yeah. Especially in an EV.

JOHN SNYDER: Yeah, because the shifting and that super high revving engine-- it was just screaming at you. It was just the coolest sound. But I think give us a droptop, and give it really good handling, and some sportiness, and maybe throw in some trick feature that we haven't thought of yet, and it'll stick out. It'll be nice.

GREG MIGLIORE: That is still-- I remember a couple of very vivid press loans pretty early in my automotive journalism career too, because it's been gone for a while. But just that manual transmission. It was so light. I remember one guy thought it was, like, an MG or something. This guy I worked with who wasn't with-- it was Autoweek at the time, but he worked for, like-- I think it was Crain's Detroit Business.

He's like, wow, that's a really nice MG you're driving. I'm like, no, no, no. This is S-2000. It was the CR, the club racer. I mean, I remember it had, like, a sticky reverse gear. And I lived in an apartment at the time, so I just stuck it in neutral and pushed it, like, to the middle of the parking lot and drove forward, because it was so light.

JOHN SNYDER: Small enough to do that.

GREG MIGLIORE: But yeah, I mean, really a lot of fun. And you know, it just-- curb weight was 2,800 pounds, a little bit under that. Yeah, I'm reading a "Car & Driver" review here written by the late Tony Swann.

JOHN SNYDER: Ah yeah.

GREG MIGLIORE: So you know, it takes me back about 15 years here. But to me, that is the only-- if you're looking at Prelude, safe play. Could do it. You've already got the Integra back on the Acura side of things. Prelude makes a lot of sense for Honda.

The only downside to S-2000 is it is a little bit of a niche thing. But how do you get that manual in there? Or do you somehow maybe do it like an electric, a hybrid thing. Honda has been-- we are thinking it's an electric. So you know, I don't know.

This is one of those things where maybe you just-- and it wouldn't be very life. You know, that's the other thing is, like, if it's electric, you got batteries. That's going to be heavy. You're going to have a tough time, you know, slapping an S-2000 name on something that might weigh 3,600 pounds or 4,000 pounds. Whoa. But I don't know. I'm with you. I hope they do throw it on that side of the ledger.

JOHN SNYDER: Yeah. If you keep it low enough to the ground and just-- it might not be light, but keep that center of gravity low with the battery down there, and give it some good handling chops, and I think that'll fit the formula.

GREG MIGLIORE: All right. Well, let's talk about the formula. We've got "Motor Trend." Speaking of great writers, Alecia Poeltl, the "Motor Trend" Detroit Bureau Chief, has a scoop on--

JOHN SNYDER: She's great.

GREG MIGLIORE: Yeah, she's great. She actually interviewed me for a job at Ward's Automotive, like, 17 years ago when I had no business really doing any sort of automotive job, let's put it that way, right out of school. But good scoop here-- she spoke to Ralph Giles, who's the VP of Design for Stellantis.

This is a little bit of a different direction, let's put it that way. Check out the story. We kind of have our own take on there on our site, let's put it that way. But yeah, it's going to look different.

It's not going to look like this sort of Airflow. It probably won't-- it won't have the Airflow name. Which is really-- I don't know, I don't-- that goes back to the 30s. I'm not sure that has a lot of relevance in this day and age.

But it also sounds kind of good and there's not that many good car names out there. So I don't know, I wouldn't have minded seeing that name work. So we'll see.

JOHN SNYDER: It's fitting for an EV when you're thinking about efficiency and stuff. But yeah, I mean, you can find something more exciting. And yeah, that seems to be the route they're going.

Chris Fewell says that she wanted a statement that had literally zero to do with anything that you've seen today, even the Airflow concept. So it sounds like whatever is coming is going to set the tone for design and just the feel of the Chrysler brand going forward. And that's going to be sort of the first step in sort of a big change over there. So it'll be interesting to see.

But yeah, the Airflow-- I like it. I like the Airflow as it is. But yeah, if you want to remake your brand, sure. Yeah. Start over.

GREG MIGLIORE: They're also kind of, in the last week or two, we've heard, like, sort of rumblings about an electric 300, which makes sense because, you know, Dodge is already looking at some sort of electric successor for the Charger and Challenger-- very murky in exactly what's going to happen, how that's going to work, et cetera.

But it would make sense just given that the Charger, the 300, and the Challenger are all siblings, essentially, on that ancient LX platform. But it makes sense that a new generation of cars might share some underpinnings. You know, the 300 seems to be a little bit more of a wild card.

Like, it may be positioned differently than how it has been in the past. We'll see. You know, and this-- the way they're suggesting it is it's like a new to Chrysler name. So probably not the 300-- not the Airflow either. Yeah, so I guess we'll see.

So that's a new section. Let's talk about a car we've both been driving, the Bentley Bentayga. This is really something. The sticker was about $253, I want to say, maybe more-- I'll have to look at that. Maybe $265.

It was expensive. And you drove it over to my house. Thanks. We did a bit of a car swap. You were able to get a good 60 miles on it-- 50, 60 miles, somewhere in there. Yeah, and, you know, then I spent a little more time in it driving it around for a week. What did you think?

JOHN SNYDER: You know, it didn't-- driving it, let's say, it didn't blow my socks off the way some other Bentleys have. This is more of a car that I would want to be driven in-- sort of has that limousine sort of quality. It's a really nice interior. With the extended wheelbase, you've got a lot of space.

So my kids were living in the lap of luxury. But yeah, it's not the driver's focused Bentley some of the other ones are, especially when you get something like 12 cylinders under the hood or something. This is a V8. But that being said, very, very nice. Very comfortable.

The craftsmanship-- Bentley's craftsmanship is just really outstanding, top notch. The attention to detail, the way the leather is sewn together. Every seam is beautiful. It's really impressive stuff-- all the materials, the design, very opulent without being ostentatious.

I mean, it is a little ostentatious, but it doesn't make you feel sick to your stomach, like you're eating something too sweet. It just makes you feel good. But yeah, it's definitely a good car to be seen in. People definitely take notice of you going down the road.

Yeah, I like some of the other-- the sedans. Those are more my style-- just something more driver focused. Because when Bentley does something that's driver focused, they can do a surprisingly good job with something so big and heavy.

But it wasn't-- that's not to say it was bad to drive. It wasn't bad to drive at all. It's just not quite as exciting as some of the others.

GREG MIGLIORE: Yeah. I mean, it's a Bentayga so it's like their SUV. It's the 4 liter twin turbo V8, 542 horsepower. It's a torquey thing with 568 pound feet of torque. That's 0 to 60 in 4.5 seconds, if you're wondering.

It's almost the after show here, because the real thing is you sit in the back seat, you put down the veneer picnic tables, you've got all the different lighting-- yeah, I mean, my kid was super spoiled for preschool dropoff. And that's what you're sitting back there like, business class, first class, however you want to put it-- I went out there one night because I was like, you know what?

Kind of like you, I was just like, OK, yeah, it's sort of a big V8 SUV-- more interesting than, like, an Explorer, or a Tahoe, or something-- or, like, a Pathfinder. But nonetheless, still kind of like a fancy SUV. So I went out there and made a cheese plate, and sat in the back seat, and just kind of hung out for a little bit. It's not bad.

JOHN SNYDER: Did you have your grey poupon?

GREG MIGLIORE: You know, did I? I do have grey poupon in the house. I don't think I took it out with me to the car, though. But it was pretty good. I had some Gruyere, had the LED lights going. And did you sit in those seats? They're airline spec, as they say.

JOHN SNYDER: Yeah. Yeah, they're very comfortable. Yeah, very luxurious, very executive, I will say.

GREG MIGLIORE: They contour to you at up to 177 different pressure changes, which is not bad. I did that and I did the massage, which was good. And then-- oh, I forgot, this is funny-- the next day before the car was going back, I went out and just did some meetings from the backseat.

And then the car fleet guys showed up and were knocking on the door. And I'm like, oh, hey, didn't realize you guys were going to be here at this point. So it was a little awkward, but, you know, it was fine. But yeah, I mean, that's kind of the story is, like, you buy this if you want that first class experience.

JOHN SNYDER: Yeah. And one thing about driving it, I will say, it is quick. It's quite powerful.

GREG MIGLIORE: Yeah.

JOHN SNYDER: But it's just-- the acceleration is so smooth and the ride going down the road is so smooth that it feels very not dramatic, even when you're doing 0 to 60 in 4.5 seconds, which is very quick-- which is just so undramatic. Very drama free, that you almost don't feel like you're going as fast as you are.

And that's true of other Bentleys too. I mean, they just-- they smooth out all the bumps and seams, not just in the interior but also in the drive and in the acceleration. It's just all very smooth.

GREG MIGLIORE: I thought it was a little loud on the expressway, for what it's worth. I don't know if you experienced that. But I was a little surprised. I was coming down, speaking of Chrysler, coming down 75 sort of like the northern suburbs and my thought was, man, even if you're like the Queen of England, like, you still-- you're in your Bentley, it's still loud in rush hour in Detroit, like, at 75.

But I was a little surprised. I heard some air noise coming in there, I was like, mm, this isn't-- like, it's not obnoxious, but I'm like, this is not the quietest thing I've ever ridden in. So I don't know, but there was that.

JOHN SNYDER: Yeah.

GREG MIGLIORE: Yeah, this one, I don't think-- it's Mercedes and I think Rolls Royce that offers up, like, silver flutes. So I don't have any of those.

JOHN SNYDER: Yeah, there was no, like, little refrigerator or anything in this one.

GREG MIGLIORE: Yeah. I don't know. I mean, this is a weird comparison, but this is also, like, the job. If I were looking in this segment, I kind of like the Rolls-Royce Cullinan more if I was looking just for, like, pure luxury SUV, like, insane luxury SUV, let me put it that wa. And If I want something driver focused, I might even step down, save a little bit of money, do the Aston Martin DBX or the Lambo Urus.

JOHN SNYDER: Yeah.

GREG MIGLIORE: Like, if I owned a hedge fund, that would be my competitive set, you know?

JOHN SNYDER: Yeah. Yeah. I think I agree with you, for sure. I would definitely go the more driver focused route. Even, you know, like, a Mercedes-Maybach, the GLS. It's still pretty fun to drive and also really, really nice to sit in. And you do have the little wine fridge back there for you.

GREG MIGLIORE: Oh, I forgot about the wine fridge. Of course. Got to do it, right? Yeah. I thought about bringing a glass of wine out, because it's like 9 o'clock. I'm like, I'm definitely not going anywhere tonight, you know?

Sip some wine. But I was like, you know what, I don't want to get this on the seats. You never know. There's, like, some crushed, like, material or something back there. I'm like, eh. That'd be really hard to explain.

Like, no, really, I was sitting in my driveway, you know? And we had this, like, kind of bubbly red wine probably still left over from, like, Easter or something. And I was like, this would stain until the end of time. There's no way this would ever come out.

It was the color of this, like, yahoo purple hoodie I'm wearing. And it's pretty good. So speaking of British SUVs, I spent the week in the Range Rover. This is the SE trim-- the regular Range Rover, not the Sport. I feel like the Sport is almost so ubiquitous.

Long wheelbase, seated seven. It was gold, which was, like, kind of like a matte gold.

JOHN SNYDER: Yeah.

GREG MIGLIORE: So it's a little tricky when you're walking up to the car and it's like, which one is yours? The gold Range Rover. Like, oh my gosh. That feels pretentious. But I almost feel the need to say, it's not my car.

But I always think the Range Rover is a really interesting spot in the segment. You know, this one came in at $153 total. And it had a lot of stuff on it-- like the SV trim, which is the big wheels. Like, every single, like, head up display and, like, other-- like, the paint was $2,000, the leather seats, the interior upgrade. There's, like, a million-- like, the sound system-- like, a million different, like, $15 to $2,000 upgrades that kind of got it up there.

JOHN SNYDER: Yeah.

GREG MIGLIORE: But 523 horsepower, another 4.4 liter twin turbo 8 cylinder. It's a lot of fun to drive. If I was looking to spend six figures on an SUV in this segment-- and this is a big one too. This is a long wheelbase. Yeah, this one I would strongly consider.

It's like-- the steering, I think, in Range Rovers is really, really good. It's one of those fields where it doesn't feel like you're driving such a big SUV. I like how they look and they sound. I think that's kind of cool.

I really liked it. I think there's probably-- if you look at Mercedes, or BMW, or Audi, or, like, you want to spend this money, you can talk Escalator, Navigator-- you can get a little bit more space, you can maybe get an overall quality and reliability that might be a little stronger than what Land Rover can offer you. But I mean, if you're going to drop $153 on an SUV, you've probably got the money to take it to a dealer every now and then.

So I really enjoyed driving it. I think it does convey-- I think Range Rover does the best job of being, like, large and functional to a point, but also kind of actually sort of sporty, that I don't necessarily get from, like, the Germans-- or the Americans. Because the Americans will build you squared off battleships on wheels.

You know, and the Germans are somewhere like, we're sporty. But it's still like-- like, I don't think an X7 is very sporty to drive. So you know, I think if you want something, like, that is legitimately sporty and has that British character, I really like the Range Rover.

JOHN SNYDER: Yeah. And sort of in that price point, you can do a lot of personalization too. You can really sort of make it your own. And it already stands out. You don't really see a lot of these on the road, but you can really make it yours.

And yeah, you get that sportiness, that utility, that ruggedness, and just the feeling of driving a Range Rover. You know, they're very smooth and comfortable, but also very capable.

So it's kind of-- it makes you feel good. It makes you feel like you can tackle what comes your way in one of these things and that you can do it in style.

GREG MIGLIORE: You know, this one had-- speaking of fun options, it had the tailgate event suite. So what that means is the tailgate opens up. And it's a clam shell, of course, because it's a Range Rover.

And then you can stand up kind of like-- a lawn chair isn't the right thing, but it gives you, like, a hard back to sit on. And it folds up. And then there's some leather cushions.

Now, is this worth the, I want to say, $2 grand? I would not say so. But it's super cool. Yeah, 1950 on your Monroney. I don't know about that. You can just sit on the tailgate as it is.

But it's cool. I mean, it strikes me almost like, you know, you're like hunting with the retriever with, you know, the, like, I don't know, the powder shotgun somewhere in Scotland. Like, that's what you would use this for while you're wearing some tartan and sipping a whiskey before you go on the stalking route. I would be like, hey, Big Ten football game, we're going to sit on this--

JOHN SNYDER: Absolutely.

GREG MIGLIORE: Drink some Labatt or something. But it's fun. I mean, it's just-- it's a cool little option. And it's very nicely done is, I guess, what I'm trying to get to. So kind of cool there.

JOHN SNYDER: Yeah. I haven't driven a Range Rover in a while.

GREG MIGLIORE: Yeah.

JOHN SNYDER: But this one-- I would be excited to. I mean, I really like the way it looks. I really do. Even with some of those funky paint colors-- some of those paint colors are really neat too. That sort of matte red you can get--

GREG MIGLIORE: Yeah. The gold is subtle, but you don't see it because it's like there's a lot of goldish, tan ish, yellow, silvery cars. But the matte red, like, they'll see you coming in that thing.

JOHN SNYDER: Yeah. And I just think all the accents are done so well-- all the little pieces of exterior trim.

GREG MIGLIORE: Yeah.

JOHN SNYDER: It all just comes together really nicely.

GREG MIGLIORE: Yeah. I agree. And you could get into a Range Rover cheaper. This is a little more expensive. Like, if you just want the look, and the drive character, they have some lower level engines that are still pretty good. Like, you can get into one.

And you're still rolling around in a Range Rover. You know, nothing wrong with that. So real quick, what do you think of-- I think it was last week, Land Rover kind of announced that the Land Rover brand was going to step back. It would be, like, Range Rover Defender and, I think, Discovery. I like I talked to Riswick about this, our West Coast editor, who's like, yeah, I know everybody always calls them the Defender of the Range Rover.

I would argue that's true. And I always call this the Range Rover. But I think Land Rover selling itself short here. I think Land Rover still has a lot of brand recognition.

I think the Land Rover Defender-- like, to me, it's, like, just saying "Defender" in the United States, people are like, OK, what is that? A security system? Is that, like, my new Comcast upgrade for the yard? Like, what is that?

So I don't know, I think Land Rover still has a little bit more equity than, perhaps, they're giving it credit for. So I kind of think that's a bad move. What do you think?

JOHN SNYDER: I agree with you. Yeah, 100%. I mean, at least here in America, I think the Land Rover name evokes something still.

GREG MIGLIORE: Yeah. Evoke.

JOHN SNYDER: And it's something positive. It's an idea of luxury and ruggedness, capability, which the American dream, really, in a British car. So yeah, I don't know. That's my thought on it.

GREG MIGLIORE: So you've been in the GR Corolla. I was in one last fall but it's been a minute. So what did you think of this thing?

JOHN SNYDER: It's awesome.

GREG MIGLIORE: Yeah?

JOHN SNYDER: It's such a joy. I miss hot hatches. I feel like they're sort of a dying breed. And we've had a couple new contenders lately, like some of the Hyundai N-line stuff. But yeah, this thing is just pure, simple fun.

It's a Corolla, you know? But this was the Morizo, so it had the carbon fiber roof. This had the rear seat delete-- no rear seat. Just a very project focused sort of hot hatch.

Really great to drive. It's fun to shift. You know, it's got-- you can dial the all wheel drive between-- shift it between front and rear, from 60/40 to-- 40/60 to 30/70. So I was playing with that a lot, just blasting it around corners.

It's got a great big handbrake, you know, blocking your access to the cup holders. This thing is about the driving 100%. And it rewards every little turn, every shift.

Fun car. And yeah, now I think Byron has it, and then it's going to Zach. So it's making its way around the staff a little bit. But yeah, just a fun car.

It sort of reminds you what Toyota and a lot of these car companies can do when they want to make something fun, because it really is fun. And the fact that it's based on a Corolla, your typical just sort of a budget commuter car, and taking that and elevating it to something super sporty-- it's just a great formula. I love it.

GREG MIGLIORE: I got to give Toyota credit with a lot of their kind of, like, super niche-- like the Toyota 40th 4Runner. Like, these are really, like, going hard to the base of, like, Toyota enthusiasts.

JOHN SNYDER: Yeah.

GREG MIGLIORE: Like, I'm so tempted like run over to Zach's house and just drive this thing for a minute. I couldn't, like, put it on my, like, sort of dance card for the week, because I have to do, like, preschool pickup. And you got to have a back seat.

Like, you really can't be like, you know, tuck and roll, dude. Get in the back and hold on to something. But I mean, this, to me, seems like maybe, like, the closest to, like, the Mazda Speed 3 of a decade ago just in, like, true focused purpose that you just don't see in, like, commodity cars that go sporty anymore. It seems like they're always, in some ways, commodity car dressed up as sporty car.

Whereas, like, the Speed 3 and kind of like what you're saying about this one, it seems like sportiness first, which is awesome. I applaud it.

JOHN SNYDER: 100%. Yeah. And in lieu of a rear seat, there's a bar that goes across the back. And there was one latch tether for the back tether.

So if you wanted to put a car seat in the front passenger seat, if you had a long enough tether, you could connect it to that little thing. It was the weirdest little detail. I was like, what is that doing here? Oh, I suppose you could put a car seat in there and tether it way back there like a harness.

GREG MIGLIORE: It's funny, because, like, I mean, I don't think-- like, I wouldn't put a five-year-old in the front seat of a car, especially this car. If he was like 7 or 8 and we're only going a mile or two, it's like, well, wait, wait, it's probably going to be fine. But you know, I don't know.

JOHN SNYDER: Yeah, I put Wally in the front seat to--

GREG MIGLIORE: He's big. He's like adult size.

JOHN SNYDER: He is. He's huge. But just took him around the corner to our karate dojo-- our karate instructor's a shop teacher at Pioneer High school, but he's a big Toyota-- he's a big Toyota guy. He's got a last gen Sienna that he has supercharged and airbag suspension. It's really cool. It's really funny.

GREG MIGLIORE: Is it, like, lowered or something?

JOHN SNYDER: Yeah, adjustables.

GREG MIGLIORE: Yeah, got to do it.

JOHN SNYDER: Yeah. It's just a sweet custom minivan. But I brought this-- but he'd been hoping to get a circuit edition allocated. But they just-- there's so few of them. He had been able to get an application for the core, the base model.

But he's like, if I'm going to buy something that's going to depreciate, I want it to be the one I want. But anyway, I drove-- I brought this over by, and he was just totally geeked. And like, you know, he's a Toyota guy-- he takes his car-- he's got a Tundra too that he takes to shows. And you just see how excited he was that there's something like this again.

GREG MIGLIORE: Yeah.

JOHN SNYDER: And you know, he was pointing out all these little details that he loved about it-- just little things that you might not notice unless you're a fan of the brand. So it was just kind of-- it was kind of cool. And just good on Toyota for making this-- for their fans and for-- I'm sure they'll attract new fans with this car too.

GREG MIGLIORE: Oh, for sure. So let's close things out with the 2024 Encore GX. What was that like? I honestly have not driven a Buick in, man, like, probably three years. I mean, it probably hasn't been that long. But I mean, it's been a long time since I have driven a Buick.

And that's probably something, like, they should be a little more aggressive about getting the Buicks into the press fleet. But what did you think of this thing?

JOHN SNYDER: It's sort of a funny little thing. It's the Encore, so it's their small thing. It's the GX. It's just a slightly bit bigger. It's the '24-- the 2024. So it's facelifted. And I think the facelift actually looks great.

And it's the Avenir, which is new to the Encore. So it's their special highest trim level. It's not elevated quite to the Avenir status of an Enclave. It's not quite that nice. The materials aren't quite that nice. But I mean, the design is-- there's still a lot of nice materials.

But yeah, it's kind of a funny little thing. It's a luxury small crossover that's still kind of affordable, but not ultra luxurious. Like, there's no ventilated seats in this one, which is--

GREG MIGLIORE: Kind of a weird spot to be.

JOHN SNYDER: Yeah. Yeah, it is. And it's got a 1.3 liter, 3 cylinder turbo engine is what's powering it, which feels very European to me.

GREG MIGLIORE: Interesting. That's a small engine for the US market.

JOHN SNYDER: It is. I think it's like-- I forget the horsepower-- the 150 something horsepower. But it feels, like, pretty peppy. It feels like an engine enough for this thing, for sure.

GREG MIGLIORE: OK.

JOHN SNYDER: And it sounds just a little bit, I don't know, lumpy maybe. But it's not loud, so it's not buzzing at you. And there's an actual-- this one has all wheel drive, so this one, instead of getting the CVT, it gets the 9 speed automatic.

So it's got that going for it too. But yeah, just a comfortable little SUV that is just a bit nicer than other things that size. And yeah, the facelift is really nice. I really like the front end on it, the new grille, the new nose, some of the new-- even the new creases and accents, they look good.

They look fresher than before by my estimation a lot. It gets the new Buick logo on it too, which is really cool. It actually looks--

GREG MIGLIORE: Do you like that logo?

JOHN SNYDER: I do. I do. Especially in person, it's got some nice texture and color to it, some depth, a little bit of intricacy in it. And you see it sort of throughout-- you see it on the key fob even. And it's just-- it looks really good.

The infotainment in there, I think it's a 19 inch wide sort of dual display, curved. They're calling it the virtual cockpit. Really nice. Looks great.

Easy to use. But there's still-- I mean, there's still hard buttons for all the climate stuff, thankfully, so you don't have to go into menus. You can do it from the menu. And then, yeah, it's pretty simple and functional infotainment.

You can configure things. You can throw things from the right side onto your instrument panel in front of you, onto that screen-- like battery voltage, if you want to display that. You can move it from the menu over on your right in your infotainment to right in front of you and things like that.

And one thing about it that I think is really neat, the front passenger seat-- I don't know if the front driver's seat does it, I haven't checked with it. But the front passenger seat, you can fold it forward all the way.

The rear seat's kind of small. But if you had someone-- if you had to give a ride to a basketball player or something, you didn't want to-- they could use the front seat as a leg rest, basically.

GREG MIGLIORE: Interesting.

JOHN SNYDER: But I mean, it's big enough for a couple of car seats and pretty spacious cargo area. I wouldn't want to spend a lot of time as an adult in the backseat. But up front, you know, it's quite-- it feels quite spacious, and roomy, and airy.

But yeah, actually, I like it, especially with the updated, the looks to it. I think it just looks a lot better.

GREG MIGLIORE: I actually think Buick design is pretty good these days. They don't have a very broad portfolio, but, like, they kind of like-- they're getting their cross UVs-- I just invented a new segment there-- they're getting their crossovers with that kind of longer, or at least looking like longer, hood, getting some creases in there.

Kind of tuck the headlights down, the grilles, to your point. Like, I think it's a good look. You know, I don't know if they get enough credit for it.

JOHN SNYDER: Yeah, it's definitely-- it looks definitely more modern than before. I don't think that the previous design was bad.

GREG MIGLIORE: Yeah. It's just boring, I think.

JOHN SNYDER: Yeah. It been around for a while. And I think this new look is quite nice. And I hope to see it on more Buicks going forward.

GREG MIGLIORE: All right, so now we're going to segue over to an interview I did with Hoss Hassani. He's the Vice President of EV Charging Ecosystem for General Motors. That means he is leading essentially General Motors' efforts to increase EV adoption, but they're trying to do it through how GM relates to the infrastructure, to consumers, all sorts of different things.

He's worked a bunch of different places around the world-- Canada, the Middle East, Europe, and now here in Michigan. Previously, he was managing director for Cadillac in Canada. So let's segue over to my interview with Hoss.

Joining us now is Hoss Hassani, who essentially heads up General Motors infrastructure. He's one of the guys who is going to help you potentially plug into a new electric vehicle, specifically if that's a General Motors car, truck, or SUV. So thanks for joining us today.

Let's jump right in. As you look at just the landscape, the ecosystem, such as it is, what do you think the biggest single challenge facing OEMs is today as far as the charging infrastructure?

HOSS HASSANI: Hi, Greg. Yeah, I think the biggest challenge, frankly speaking, is just breaking through the noise. It's really fundamentally one of addressing the misconceptions that exist with electrification.

When you think about it, so last year, we hit 6% adoption on EVs. Meaning out of all the EVs-- sorry, out of all the new vehicles that were sold in the US, 6% of them were electric vehicles. And what we've seen in markets like China and Europe is once you hit that 5% or 6% threshold, you start to see an acceleration.

Now, within that 6%, based on our conversations, our research, our interactions with customers, and survey respondents, and all the rest, we know that had we been able to, as an industry, be more effective at dispelling some of the misconceptions around EVs, we would have seen more than 6% of customers get into an EV. So I think by and large, that's the biggest one.

I know people often think about charging infrastructure, and grid readiness, and all the rest. And those are certainly germane issues that we can talk about. But I really think right now, our biggest challenge is just breaking through the noise.

GREG MIGLIORE: How do you think, essentially, we can speed up the growth of the infrastructure? There's actually a fair amount of EVs out there-- almost every automaker has a pretty spotlight vehicle. How can OEMs, perhaps, speed up the growth of the infrastructure?

HOSS HASSANI: Well, our approach has been-- or our thesis has been that, absent the automaker investing in infrastructure, it would develop much more slowly. Because private enterprise is in there to make money. And today, charging infrastructure is not a lucrative enterprise because of the number of EVs that are on the road not really being at that critical mass that they need for it to be a profitable exercise outside of states like California, as an example.

So if you want to build an infrastructure on the highways, and rural communities, and markets that don't yet see a huge car park or don't have a lot of incentives to spur on EV sales, that's where OEMs, automakers, need to invest. And, indeed, General Motors has its money where its mouth is, so to speak.

Several years ago, we made an investment with EVgo to deploy 3,250 DC fast chargers across 50 metropolises across the US. We have, subsequent to that, made other announcements totaling a $750 million investment that we're making directly in infrastructure to accelerate its buildout ahead of car park growth.

GREG MIGLIORE: What do you think OEMs need from charging partners, from the different companies out there that are in the space? What do you think they need? What do you need?

HOSS HASSANI: Well, I'll tell you what we're telling our partners we need-- so it's well past a thought into more of an appeal or directive depending on our relationship. So let me just put these in the four categories-- reliability, availability, accessibility, and ultimately customer experience, which encompasses all of those but have a few other elements.

So reliability for us means when a customer pulls up to a charging station, they have no anxiety or no doubt that they're going to be able to successfully complete a charge. And any direct investments we're making in charging infrastructure comes with a requirement that our partners meet certain thresholds of reliability so that, indeed, any GM customer or, frankly, any other of our competitor's customers pulling up to an Altium branded charger know that they're going to be able to successfully complete a charge without hassle.

Availability side is really just making sure that we have charging everywhere our customers are going to be. So General Motors has painted this vision of having everybody in an EV. That's informing our product portfolio, where you see we've got a vehicle-- EV coming out in every segment, with the Equinox around the corner, which will be, arguably, the most affordable EV on the market when it hits.

And so that infrastructure, if you're trying to target everyone, you need infrastructure everywhere, right? You need infrastructure in rural communities and exurban communities. It can't just be a coastal phenomenon. It can't be just a phenomenon for affluent folks and in places with really bougie malls and all the rest. Infrastructure needs to be accessible.

On the accessibility front, in that respect, we're really talking about making sure that folks with accessibility challenges, mobility challenges, people who need assistive devices and so forth also can participate in this new economy without obstruction and interference. And we recently had an exercise with EVgo that was quite breakthrough and transformative in thinking.

And we worked with one of our employee resource groups that's really focused on removing barriers for people with accessibility concerns. And then lastly, customer experience just encompasses all of it, right?

We need to make sure that we're not perpetuating this world where people have to download 15 apps to access 15 charging networks. We know customers want a unified, seamless experience. And so that's a big part of it as well.

GREG MIGLIORE: So to kind of flip the script, then, on you, what role do OEMs play in growing the infrastructure?

HOSS HASSANI: Well, OEMs have to have to lean into all this stuff, right? Like, this stuff isn't going to happen on its own on the timeline that we want. Of course, the private enterprises out there in the charging business don't wake up in the morning and say, how can we make it more difficult for people to charge? Or how can we create yet another app for people to have?

That's not their intention. But a lot of these are startup organizations. They're trying to scale quickly and get infrastructure in the ground, which is, by the way, no easy feat. And it's getting more difficult with permitting and all the rest.

So you know, General Motors views its role as collaborating with these partners. It's not a tell and then go figure it out. So on the reliability piece, as an example, we're trying to bring our over a century of experience in building a quality management system to bear with our charging partners to ensure we have the right process and structure in place to ensure charging works, and problems are diagnosed in real time, and resolved expediently, and so forth.

We're using our experience in software and our access to customers through our vehicle apps, right-- our My Chevrolet app, or My Cadillac app, and so forth, to illustrate the opportunity for our charging partners who want to integrate into that app ecosystem instead of trying to create their own and on and on. So OEMs need to be part of the solution.

They need to be collaborators in it. They need to be co-creators in it and not just sort of standing on the sidelines and directing.

GREG MIGLIORE: How about government? State, local, regional, cities-- do you see a role for all those different entities in this process?

HOSS HASSANI: 100%. I mean, we were buoyed by things like the return of the $7,500 federal tax credit. What we need to ensure happens across the economy that government plays a role in-- first off, continued investment. That is in the entire economy related to EVs. Infrastructure is a start, of course.

And the $7.5 billion of moneys that will be flowing into infrastructure is a good start. But investments span the entire value chain of producing EVs. We really need to see an urgent, significant, fundamental shift in streamlining of processes around permitting and getting infrastructure into the ground.

The issue is getting worse. The timelines are getting longer. And what that means is you've got all this money earmarked, whether it's private money, federal money, OEM money earmarked to deploy infrastructure, and it's just being stymied by the slowness of getting things approved through the system.

We still have supply chain issues when it comes to switchgear and certain hardware that utilities need to make upgrades. But that's-- I would say that's probably the single biggest issue right now. And it's a complicated issue, right? We know that the federal or state government can't just wave a pen and make it go away.

But this is an area that needs to accelerate really quickly. Otherwise, we are going to continue to see a bottleneck get worse. There's some other things that we're already seeing movement on, like ensuring pricing is by the kilowatt hour instead of by time, ensuring new building codes promote infrastructure being in place in the building to support EVs.

But if I could direct their efforts in one place, it would be addressing this issue of permitting, timelines, and that whole process to get infrastructure into the ground.

GREG MIGLIORE: When you look at, like, home charging, that could be a big part of it for some consumers depending on where they live. What, I guess, sort of advice or guidance would you have for consumers that are trying to, like, get on the grid from the comfort of their own home, if you will?

HOSS HASSANI: But a GM EV. I mean, no, seriously, so when the new Bolts and Bolt EV were introduced a couple of years ago, we were the first automaker to introduce both a turnkey home installation program-- and by turnkey, meaning you just-- when you take delivery of the vehicle, we initiate the process, we pair you with one electrician, and they take care of it from start to finish, including the permitting, ensuring you have a future proofed upgrade in your home.

But we also covered the cost of it with the Bolt. And that program still exists where we're, essentially, covering the costs for most customers, depending on what your home setup is. Cadillac, when the LYRIQ was introduced, offered a program that was different but similar in so far as most customers are getting their 240 volt outlet installed in their garage on us, so to speak. With Hummer, we didn't cover the cost, but we did offer a concierge service to make that an effortless exercise.

So over 80%, 85% of charging is done at home. It's like your phone, right? You're waking up every morning with a full charge, so to speak. And so we recognized that early and recognize that there is an anxiety with how people get charging infrastructure installed in their home.

And we took care of it. So we're still the only automaker that has a program like that in place. And it's been quite successful.

GREG MIGLIORE: OK. To me, that's kind of, like, a creative approach, honestly. When we were-- I know when you guys announced that, we were covering it. And we thought, wow, GM will hire you an electrician, if you will.

It seems like there's a lot of different little parts in the process on the road to electrification, if you will, that they're really, like, the devil is in the details. How do you guys try to solve some of those? Obviously, getting somebody an electrician is really part of it. But what other kind of bumps and just things that, like, it's a lot easier to do for the consumer if it's already figured out for them, if you will?

HOSS HASSANI: Yeah. You're right, Greg. And the other thing, too, is that it's important for us to remember that customers aren't a monolith. And you've got customers in very different situation, right? Two customers with a single family detached home may still have a different situation.

One may have available electricity in their panel AND one may not. You've got customers that-- 10% or 15% of car buyers in the US who live in an apartment, or a condo, or a duplex, or a different build form than a single family home may have, again, additional hurdles that prevents them or makes it more onerous to get charging at home, as an example.

And then what do they do? Do they just step in? Do they run cables across the sidewalk like some folks in Manhattan do? What do they do? So there's a lot. There's a lot of these little issues, as you say.

And one of the things that we did to try and help resolve that is we created this new education platform called EV Live. It's a website that customers can access-- anyone can access, including our competitors' customers who, in fact, are calling us. It's EVLive.GM.com.

It's open seven days a week. And you're having a live conversation on one way video. So you can see our EV Live specialist. They can't see you. You're having a live conversation with a real human, not an avatar or bot.

And they're just answering whatever's on your mind. It's not a prerecorded script. It's not a sales pitch. We're not trying to sell you on a particular EV. We're trying to get you comfortable with an EV.

So that whole studio and the training curriculum around these folks was designed to help people overcome the issues, whether it's a charging issue at home or charging issue in public. Like, I go on a road trip, can I buy an EV? Answer is "yes." Answer questions about the battery.

You know, what happens after three years of the battery if I get into an accident? How much am I paying for the battery? Answer, "you're not," type of thing. So EV Live was created to help us, first of all, understand maybe those onesy, twosy issues that we're not able to maybe get through our other channels, whether it's research or observation stuff.

And it's proven quite effective. As I mentioned, we've got some of our competitors' customers calling us because they can't get answers through their own channels. And then the other avenue is our dealers, right?

Our dealers are really adept at gathering this information, getting feedback to us. We've got dealers in the heartland of the country who are sort of trying to express the issues that are facing some of our rural and exurban customers that we need to address. So it's really just making sure we're listening but acting on what we hear.

GREG MIGLIORE: You talk about some of your competitors-- variety of different approaches out there. Some of them are basically like, hey, we make you the EV, you take it from here. And then the other end of the spectrum, you sort of have Tesla, which designed and built its own supercharger network.

Do you ever see a day where GM could pivot to, like, saying, hey, we're going to have this full in-house sort of charging network? Or is that just something that you sort of feel is best left to others, if you will?

HOSS HASSANI: Anything is possible in the future, right? When you're dealing with such a nascent industry, it's foolish to be too dogmatic or entrenched in your positions. You've got to always keep your eyes and ears open to what's happening in the marketplace and understand what opportunities present itself.

Our approach for the last several years has been a partner powered approach. It really stands apart, it's different than Tesla's approach, but it's also different than every other OEM's approach for the most part. We believe that we can accelerate, and combine efforts, and combine investments.

I mentioned the EVgo deal. We partnered with Pilot, FlyingJ, and EVgo to build out a road trip-- what we call a road trip charging network, but it's a highway rest stop charging network-- at 500 of Pilot Flying J locations. But also, the power of that partnership and co-investment is probably most embodied in our dealership community charging program.

This is not installing infrastructure at dealerships. This is working with our dealers to get infrastructure in the 4,000 communities that our dealers are present in the US and 450 or so in Canada-- to get charging infrastructure in places where, in many instances, it'll be the first charging infrastructure that goes into the ground.

That's something that we can only do through partnership and bringing others along for the ride. And so we believe that that's the right approach today. In the future, that may pivot. But we're all in on this approach right now.

GREG MIGLIORE: OK. Sounds good. And I like to ask different executives I interview, what are you driving? Do you have an EV in your personal fleet today, by chance? What are you driving these days?

HOSS HASSANI: I drive a Bolt EUV. I've had a Bolt for a couple of years. I had the previous Bolt, Bolt EUV. I love my Bolt EUV.

I'm eagerly waiting to get my hands on a LYRIQ, or a Hummer, or Blazer, or Equinox. As you can imagine, they're scarce because we're trying to prioritize customers. It's kind of hard to be driving around with a LYRIQ as a company car when you've got customers like, I've been waiting for this thing for, like, a year and a half.

So I'm looking forward to that normalizing a bit so that we can get into the Altium based EVs sooner than later. I have the chance to drive them for a week at a time, two weeks at a time. But for now, I'm loving my EUV. I really do.

This sounds almost sinful to say, my team may call me out on this-- but I've been using 120 volt outlet in my garage. I did not upgrade to a 240 volt outlet. I will when I get a Hummer or LYRIQ. But for now, like, about 40% of our customers get by on 120 volt outlet. So it's been great.

GREG MIGLIORE: All right. Sounds good. That's Hoss Hassani from General Motors. Thanks for joining us.

JOHN SNYDER: Thanks so much, Greg.

GREG MIGLIORE: All right, thanks for joining again. Check out the site where we will have this in the podcast post if you want to dial back in and hear just this part of the show. Obviously, we'll have it for you on site. So let's spend some money. What do you think there, John?

JOHN SNYDER: Yeah. Heck yeah. I love spending money.

GREG MIGLIORE: Right. Yeah, it's about to be the weekend. It's about what we're going to do going forward. This is a good one.

So the writer says his in-laws are in the market for a green vehicle, looking for something that might be a good fit. They're in their early 70s. They live in the Bay Area and need to haul a few grandchildren around.

They also want to be sure the seats are comfortable, the car is safe, low maintenance. Budget is between $44 and $60 grand. Looking to see if perhaps they could get a tax credit in there-- perhaps they go full EV. And, of course, would need to be domestic made.

Currently, there is a BMW X3 in the family for the last few years. Basically, they're thinking hybrid SUV, but also curious as to our take what a full plug-in electric hybrid-- excuse me, a plug-in hybrid electric, so we're looking at that, a traditional hybrid, and a full EV. And obviously, if you think of maybe a good gas powered car in the segment, we can talk about that too. So a lot of different things to break down, but maybe just give me a couple of ideas off the top of your head.

JOHN SNYDER: The first thing that comes to mind-- you know, I read this before and thought about it a little bit, but the first thing that comes to my mind is the Hyundai Santa Fe. You could go regular hybrid or plug-in hybrid-- very nice.

Really nice interior, very comfortable. You can get a lot done on the electric range-- some of the shorter drives. But you wouldn't have to worry about it once you deplete that electricity and you're still using it as a hybrid.

And just about the right size. Feels very luxurious in the higher trims. It feels like a very nice car. So that was my first thought.

If we're going full EV, man, there's a lot. A lot you could go with there. As always, the Mach E is always a good choice. I don't know, the ID.4, I think, is great to drive.

It's roomy. The tech could be frustrating to people. So it depends on how comfortable your in-laws are with menus. And I think even for tech savvy people, the ID.4's interface can be kind of frustrating. So I don't know about that.

GREG MIGLIORE: Yeah. Yeah, I agree with that.

JOHN SNYDER: But yeah, the Mach E, I mean, it's just cool. You see people from all walks of life driving it. It's very roomy, very fun to drive. You got to make sure there's different grades with different levels of seat comfort. So you'd want to make sure that the seats were comfortable to you-- like the GT, you're going to get better seats. So you might want to factor that into that.

GREG MIGLIORE: Yeah.

JOHN SNYDER: But yeah, those are my first thoughts.

GREG MIGLIORE: Yeah, no, I agree with the Santa Fe. That was one-- I drove that, I want to say, last summer, if my memory serves. Really liked it. With Hyundais, you get a lot of stuff.

Like, as you move up in the trims, it will feel like a premium car-- especially if you want to go up into that north of the $44 budget that was the floor, if you will. You'll get a lot of-- you'll get a lot of Hyundai for that amount of money, let's put it that way.

JOHN SNYDER: And a lot of that is safety tech-- like, good, usable, passive and active safety tech that is easy to operate that you don't even really have to think about half the time.

GREG MIGLIORE: Yeah. I would lean into the CR-V hybrid. I think that would be really good. You're going to get a lot of Honda if you spend-- you can basically get the top trim and still have money left over. It's a hybrid.

You're not going to get the tax credit or anything like that. But you're getting a lot of money-- or excuse me, a lot of value for your money, let's put it that way. You know, and then if you're looking in the, like, if you want to consider, like, a plug-in hybrid, Grand Cherokee 4 by E. That actually is available for the tax credit.

You can think Lincoln with the Corsair. I don't know if I'd go that route. Aviator is eligible for the full $7,500 tax credit, I think. It is made here. So there's that.

And then if you're going full electric, like you I would think Mach E. ID.4 is also-- for me, if you don't want, like, a Mustang-- and some people don't. To your point, I think it does, like, what the Mustang has always done, which is crosses over all sorts of purposes and ages.

But you might just-- might think, I don't really want to drive this Mustang crossover thing. I could see some people saying that. So that's where the ID.4, which is a little more of, like, a German crossovery thing, that might be the vibe they're looking for, especially if they're getting out of an X3.

JOHN SNYDER: Yeah.

GREG MIGLIORE: So you could look at some of those things. And honestly if you are looking at electric, I would look at the two-- like, the Hyundai Motor Co twins-- the Ioniq and the EV6. I would definitely look at those two if you're thinking-- if you really are serious about going electric. But any of those four, I would highly recommend. And obviously, Bay Area, you probably want to look at a Tesla Model Y too, you know?

JOHN SNYDER: Got the infrastructure, that's for sure.

GREG MIGLIORE: Indeed.

JOHN SNYDER: Yeah. The ID.4-- yeah, coming out of an X3, the ID.4, I think the design might resonate pretty well.

GREG MIGLIORE: I agree.

JOHN SNYDER: Very nice design inside. Very clean, very open. Yeah, really sort of architectural, almost. I like it quite a bit.

GREG MIGLIORE: Yeah. Yeah. No, I hear you.

JOHN SNYDER: It's good to drive. It's comfortable and it handles really well-- really sharp steering. It's really kind of surprising. It does what you ask.

GREG MIGLIORE: If you're looking to another good hybrid would be the X60, the Volvo. I think that could be another interesting. Like, you know, if you still want to stay kind of at a premium segment-- like, the one tricky part about this is I think the best sort of hybrids are really more like mainstream brands.

So if you're coming up with an X3, you may be like well I don't really want to drive a Honda, or a Hyundai, or a Ford, even. You know, so I think there's a little bit of dissonance there. But at the same time, if you load it up-- you know, the differences between what's actually luxurious and what's fully loaded, it's not significant.

It's just the brand is what you're paying for. Like, you could get heated seats, you know, adaptive cruise, everything you want you in a mainstream brand these days, you know? So yeah, we'll see how it works out.

JOHN SNYDER: Yeah. The XE60 recharges is a good call. Again, you get a little bit of luxury and that really nice design. Tons of safety-- super safe, good to drive, roomy. That's a good call, Greg. I like that.

GREG MIGLIORE: You know what else is a good call is a 1969 Oldsmobile Hurst 455 that just dropped into my inbox during the podcast from Hagerty. And I was like, well, I got to bring this up with John just because.

It just landed-- like, right now, it's on Hagerty one of their auctions. The bid right now is $13 grand. I mean, I'll split it with you if you want. My guess it's not going to stay at $13 grand, though.

JOHN SNYDER: No. No way. Oh, that's great. Hurst/Olds with the 455 rocket. That's-- oh.

GREG MIGLIORE: Rocket V8. You cannot beat that. And, like, really any Oldsmobile in my opinion, even later into the '80s. But you had-- so let's say you're going to spend money on a Cutlass. What would you do? And we'll include, like, a 442 in there too. What year and what would you do? Just curious.

JOHN SNYDER: Ugh. You know, 442-- I had a 442 for a little bit-- a '66-- '67, I'm sorry, convertible. And, man, that thing was a boat. But when I was in high school, I had a friend that had a '72 Cutlass Supreme.

GREG MIGLIORE: Oh yeah.

JOHN SNYDER: And it was just-- it was really nice sort of split the difference between drivability, comfort, and performance. So yeah, I really like the late '60s up to '72--

GREG MIGLIORE: Yeah.

JOHN SNYDER: Of the Cutlass family. So yeah, maybe '72 Cutlass Supreme.

GREG MIGLIORE: Yeah.

JOHN SNYDER: It might be the way I'd go.

GREG MIGLIORE: My dad had a '70 Cutlass Supreme in this beautiful kind of, like, light blue. So that would be-- I hope he's driving it somewhere. I think that would be a nice one.

As much as I like that brand, and there's obviously some family connections there, I kind of like the '68, which gives you those split headlights and then the fastback. So that, like, kind of me ticks all the boxes. I really like that one. I actually also, just being a child of the '80s and '90s, I really like those, like, early to mid '80s Cutlasses.

It's like a different thing. You know, that's not really a collector-- it's going to be maybe a collector car, but those aren't really-- like, an '85, an '86, an '84, somewhere in there. Those would be more, like, daily kind of interesting beater cars before they get too expensive, whereas '67, which-- or '68, '69, '70, that's significant collector value at that point.

JOHN SNYDER: Although if given my druthers at this point, I would maybe go with a Toronado--

GREG MIGLIORE: Front wheel drive, V8. Yeah. Yeah, that's a very interesting one. That is Ed Welburn, the GM design VP-- former head of design and Automotive Hall of Famer. That was-- I think he said that was one of his favorite, if not the most favorite thing he worked on at General Motors. I think he owns one.

So Toronado is cool. It's-- yeah, the design is great. Yeah, that's interesting.

JOHN SNYDER: Yeah. I've always wanted one. That was my grandpa's project at Oldsmobile when he was engineer there.

GREG MIGLIORE: That'd be a good one.

JOHN SNYDER: That was his baby.

GREG MIGLIORE: I think you have to go with that, then. That would be you got to do that.

JOHN SNYDER: Yeah.

GREG MIGLIORE: All right, if you want to tell us what Oldsmobile Cutlass would be your pick. And hey, we're an hour into the show. You're still with us, we hope you are, drop into our messages-- that's podcast@autoblog.com. We'd love to hear from you on that subject.

Or if you want us to spend your current money on a car, like a modern car-- Spend My Monies. I believe the queue is empty. Again, that's podcast@autoblog.com. Be safe out there. Enjoy your summerish spring driving. And we'll see you next week.

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